What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

[Ken]

Notice how Moore levies lots of accusations against his enemies, such as that they are pro-sexual abuse, racists, and white supremacists. There are two sides to every story., and it's quite likely Moore is simply lying.

Actually, Moore did say any of that in public. Someone leaked his email. And I agree, there are two sides to every story, and we are unwise to start threads on every conflict out there and take sides as though we each know the inside scoop. I have been unable to find anything online where Russell Moore attacks his accusers as vigorously as he did in that email to a friend and colleague. I would hate to see my emails leaked like that.

Wow! So it's OK to level accusations like that privately but not publicly? I haven't read his email at all, so I don't know what he said, but I don't know why such accusations would be more acceptable if made privately to a friend than to make them publicly. Do you really think they are?

He reported his concerns internally to his supervisors. How is that inappropriate? What is your approved method of raising concerns about issues like sexual harassment and abuse within the organization in which you work?

[Bootstrap]

Notice how Moore levies lots of accusations against his enemies, such as that they are pro-sexual abuse, racists, and white supremacists. There are two sides to every story., and it's quite likely Moore is simply lying.

Actually, Moore did say any of that in public. Someone leaked his email. And I agree, there are two sides to every story, and we are unwise to start threads on every conflict out there and take sides as though we each know the inside scoop. I have been unable to find anything online where Russell Moore attacks his accusers as vigorously as he did in that email to a friend and colleague. I would hate to see my emails leaked like that.

Wow! So it's OK to level accusations like that privately but not publicly? I haven't read his email at all, so I don't know what he said, but I don't know why such accusations would be more acceptable if made privately to a friend than to make them publicly. Do you really think they are?

Two pastors in leadership positions in a church are going to discuss things in private that they would not say in public. That's part of their pastoral role - and they were specifically given responsibility for handling some of the sex abuse issues in the Southern Baptist Church.

In at least a handful of churches I know, people who look into sexual abuse have faced false accusations from people who did not want things to come to light.

[ohio jones]

Boot,

Beth Moore has moved in the direction of lgbt affirmation - are you sure you’d say she’s following sound biblical doctrine and staying true to the text?

Can you point to anything that Russell Moore says that affirms LGBTQ positions, abortion, or any of the other things mentioned in this thread?

There's moore than one Moore, and it does get confusing.

[Josh]

Actually, Moore did say any of that in public. Someone leaked his email. And I agree, there are two sides to every story, and we are unwise to start threads on every conflict out there and take sides as though we each know the inside scoop. I have been unable to find anything online where Russell Moore attacks his accusers as vigorously as he did in that email to a friend and colleague. I would hate to see my emails leaked like that.

Wow! So it's OK to level accusations like that privately but not publicly? I haven't read his email at all, so I don't know what he said, but I don't know why such accusations would be more acceptable if made privately to a friend than to make them publicly. Do you really think they are?

He reported his concerns internally to his supervisors. How is that inappropriate? What is your approved method of raising concerns about issues like sexual harassment and abuse within the organization in which you work?

When I’ve needed to do that I went and met with H.R.; since the problems involved senior and executive management in IT, I did not put things in emails due to concern for confidentiality. H.R. had a procedure for interviewing employees and keeping their own records. (Later, I worked on a project to help them digitise records; we established mechanisms to prevent IT staff access to sensitive HR materials particularly out of concern for retaliation.)

But I don’t see him addressing specific situations. He just paints a broad brush that “this organisation is very bad”. If the SBC is as bad as he claims it is, he should have left a long time ago.

[Szdfan]

Story in WaPo before the upcoming SBC convention.

Things sound like a mess — a lot of infighting and power struggles.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion ... g-meeting/

What is especially unusual about the meeting is infighting at the highest levels of leadership that has become public in recent weeks. New details released to news media outlets have shined a light on the backroom dealings of several of its high-profile leaders.

Dwight McKissic, a Black pastor in Arlington, Tex., who decided not to go to Nashville this year, said the SBC has an “unwritten code” in SBC life.

“You have rules outside the Baptist Faith and Message that you don’t know. Now CRT is becoming one of those litmus tests, and whether you vote Republican, and whether you against women preaching. It’s a test of whether you’re in or out,” McKissic said. “When you don’t know the players or don’t have the good grasp of the cultural do’s and don’ts, it’s extremely difficult for a person of color when you’re trying to navigate waters that are not your waters.”

On Thursday, several audio recordings of high-profile meetings were leaked by a pastor who used to work for Moore. In newly leaked audio recordings of meetings between Moore and Ronnie Floyd, the head of the SBC’s executive committee that runs the denomination’s finances, Floyd said ahead of a Southern Baptist conference focused on caring for survivors of sexual abuse that he wasn’t worried about what they would say, but he said he was particularly concerned about “the base” of the SBC.

“I just want to preserve the base,” Floyd said. “And that’s what I would say to y’all as you think through the strategy. Do everything you can to remember the base.”

[Ken]

Wall Street Journal also covered the chaos in the SBC with an enormous article this week:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/our-lord-i ... _news_pos1

‘Our Lord Isn’t Woke.’ Southern Baptists Clash Over Their Future.

The big evangelical denomination is about to elect a new leader to help set its course after the Trump presidency

Evangelical Christians were a regular presence in the Trump White House. They laid hands on the president as they prayed for him, stood at his shoulder as he signed executive orders, and saw vindication for their support in his antiabortion policies and conservative judicial appointments.

Now, the Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest and most influential evangelical denomination, is at war over what direction it will take after the Trump presidency.

One faction argues the SBC should step back from its role in electoral politics in order to broaden its reach and reverse a 15-year decline in membership. Another faction says the denomination has been drifting to the left, and the way to retain and attract members is to recommit to its conservative roots and stay politically engaged. Each side accuses the other of straying from the SBC’s core mission.

The internal fissures exploded into public view when Russell Moore, the SBC’s top lobbyist in Washington and a frequent critic of Donald Trump, unexpectedly announced his resignation in May. Last week, letters he wrote criticizing other high-ranking SBC officials over their handling of sex-abuse allegations and attitudes about race became public.

Mr. Moore’s sudden departure comes as the group’s president, J.D. Greear, ends his term this month, leaving two of the denomination’s most prominent jobs, which help define evangelicalism, open at once.

. . . .

It goes on and on with a lot of talk about how the leadership's closeness to Trump and GOP politics is alienating a lot of younger and non-white Baptists who are leaving in droves.

[PetrChelcicky]

I have no ideas about the SBC.
As for Hegelianism, Karl Popper - its most outspoken critic - made the problem very clear: Hegelianism is the "deification of history": As God is the master of history, the historical winner has not only the might, but also the godly right.
It is in general a philosophy which emasculates the historical losers (or, in some cases, even the "prospective" historical losers). It tells them that they cannot stand up against the historical "stream" or "flow direction" (which is often named progress - but I do not assume that EVERY "progressive" is a Hegelian).
I think that Anabaptists are better protected against this kind of thinking because we have so much examples of people who simply refused to accept the flow direction of history by pure stubbornness. I hope that this stubbornness will survive.

[Josh]

After destroying or capturing nearly every other right wing controlled institution, I see leftists are now focused on the SBC.

[Falco Underhill]

Somebody introduced a resolution to adopt CRT/I. These things don't just happen "naturally.". It requires several people working together with an agenda to push a neo-Marxist agenda.

[Bootstrap]

I have no ideas about the SBC.
As for Hegelianism, Karl Popper - its most outspoken critic - made the problem very clear: Hegelianism is the "deification of history": As God is the master of history, the historical winner has not only the might, but also the godly right.

Yes, The Poverty of HIstoricism is a great book. The whole "laws of history" thing is bogus.

But I don't see a hint of that in either Russell Moore or J.D. Greear, do you? If so, where?