What makes a Christian company?

[steve-in-kville]

Is everyone busy with planting garden... or is traffic here on MN just down?

There’s not much left to do on MN except argue with the resident liberals who keep yelling about how bad conservative people are. Most of the conservatives have since dropped out.

Wow.

[Wayne in Maine]

Honesty and integrity. I have seldom found a company that can make a profit in a totally above board way. i OFTEN WILL AVOID "chRISTIAN" COMPANIES.

On another front, a cooperative business where all of the employees are members of the same church and all share in the business and its profits is quite appealing to me. Of course I worked for such a business at the Bruderhof communities, at was a wonderful work environment.

[Josh]

Honesty and integrity. I have seldom found a company that can make a profit in a totally above board way. i OFTEN WILL AVOID "chRISTIAN" COMPANIES.

On another front, a cooperative business where all of the employees are members of the same church and all share in the business and its profits is quite appealing to me. Of course I worked for such a business at the Bruderhof communities, at was a wonderful work environment.

Yet there are some businesses which have upstanding honesty and integrity that aren't owned or operated by Christians, and don't even make any claims to be a "Christian company".

[PetrChelcicky]

My basic argument was that early Christians AS A WHOLE formed a corporation even when they had not much staff (but the Jerusalem church had some!) and just that is why they needed a term of its own.
I wonder where Ken's dislike of pluralities/distinct corporations may stop. I have no idea about Lutherans or Catholics, but I suppose that there may survive some distinct worship groups according to distinct temperaments and predilections (I hope that we will survive as individuals and bring some differences in temperament or gusto with us.)
But if one thinks that all segregation must disappear, why stop with the Christian factions? Shouldn't the Christians/Jews/Muslims be reunited as well? And what's with Hindus and Buddhists? And atheists?
I remember a short play by Thornton Wilder where at the time of resurrection all people are smolten into each other and into God until only the eye of God remains. On the other hand, the author of the Gospel of John seems to have thought/hoped that Christ in heaven creates more than one dwelling.

[Josh]

I wonder where Ken's dislike of pluralities/distinct corporations may stop.

He's a huge fun of big government running people's lives, so he very much likes "pluralities" once they get to that scale. (Ironically, he lives in the most conservative area of his otherwise quite liberal metropolitan area; I've noticed lots of liberals do this.)

[Ken]

My basic argument was that early Christians AS A WHOLE formed a corporation even when they had not much staff (but the Jerusalem church had some!) and just that is why they needed a term of its own.
I wonder where Ken's dislike of pluralities/distinct corporations may stop. I have no idea about Lutherans or Catholics, but I suppose that there may survive some distinct worship groups according to distinct temperaments and predilections (I hope that we will survive as individuals and bring some differences in temperament or gusto with us.)
But if one thinks that all segregation must disappear, why stop with the Christian factions? Shouldn't the Christians/Jews/Muslims be reunited as well? And what's with Hindus and Buddhists? And atheists?
I remember a short play by Thornton Wilder where at the time of resurrection all people are smolten into each other and into God until only the eye of God remains. On the other hand, the author of the Gospel of John seems to have thought/hoped that Christ in heaven creates more than one dwelling.

Don't be ridiculous. Nowhere here or anywhere else will you find a single word from me saying that I don't like corporations or organizations. They serve an essential purpose. Of course early Christians formed organizations, ran complex businesses, worked for the government, engaged in trade, and participated in all manner of organizations and associations. The lived in a complex and organized society.

I just refuse to believe that a corporation or church building itself has a soul, and can therefore actually be "Christian". Likewise, neither can a country or government or tree or horse or butterfly or contract on a piece of paper (articles of incorporation) be Christian. Only people can be Christian. I invite you to produce any scripture that suggests the contrary. All of the references to "churches" in the New Testament that I have read are referring to the body of people, not some modern notion of institutional structure or property.

As for heaven? Why don't you tell us what you believe? Do you think the thousands of denominational distinctions will be maintained in heaven? That there will be a Catholic heaven and Lutheran heaven and Mennonite heaven? Do you think black denominations and white denominations will still worship separately? Do you think ethnic and national and language distinctions will be maintained so that we will have an American heaven and Chinese heaven and Nigerian heaven? I'm really curious. How many of these human-invented artificial distinctions between people do you think will be maintained in heaven?

[Josh]

Don't be ridiculous. Nowhere here or anywhere else will you find a single word from me saying that I don't like corporations or organizations. They serve an essential purpose. Of course early Christians formed organizations, ran complex businesses, worked for the government, engaged in trade, and participated in all manner of organizations and associations. The lived in a complex and organized society.

I just refuse to believe that a corporation or church building itself has a soul, and can therefore actually be "Christian". Likewise, neither can a country or government or tree or horse or butterfly or contract on a piece of paper (articles of incorporation) be Christian. Only people can be Christian. I invite you to produce any scripture that suggests the contrary. All of the references to "churches" in the New Testament that I have read are referring to the body of people, not some modern notion of institutional structure or property.

This is a rather simple thought experiment for you.

If you are a Christian person, well, you are a Christian person. If you go and marry another Christian person, in theory, you have a Christian marriage.

If you go and start a business with another Christian person of identical values and faith, you now have a two-person business that is, essentially, a Christian business. It reflects whatever values you have. And it certainly does have a soul - it reflects the souls of the two people running it.

A business or corporation is not a piece of paper (unless it's defunct, I guess.)

[Ken]

Don't be ridiculous. Nowhere here or anywhere else will you find a single word from me saying that I don't like corporations or organizations. They serve an essential purpose. Of course early Christians formed organizations, ran complex businesses, worked for the government, engaged in trade, and participated in all manner of organizations and associations. The lived in a complex and organized society.

I just refuse to believe that a corporation or church building itself has a soul, and can therefore actually be "Christian". Likewise, neither can a country or government or tree or horse or butterfly or contract on a piece of paper (articles of incorporation) be Christian. Only people can be Christian. I invite you to produce any scripture that suggests the contrary. All of the references to "churches" in the New Testament that I have read are referring to the body of people, not some modern notion of institutional structure or property.

This is a rather simple thought experiment for you.

If you are a Christian person, well, you are a Christian person. If you go and marry another Christian person, in theory, you have a Christian marriage.

If you go and start a business with another Christian person of identical values and faith, you now have a two-person business that is, essentially, a Christian business. It reflects whatever values you have. And it certainly does have a soul - it reflects the souls of the two people running it.

A business or corporation is not a piece of paper (unless it's defunct, I guess.)

OK, let's continue with the thought experiment. Say your spouse dies and you as a widow or widower decide to remarry. Which, to my knowledge is permissible in the vast majority of Christian denominations, including I believe yours. When you get to heaven will you then become a polygamist and have two spouses, your first one and your second one? Does the first spouse have a say in the matter? What about the second spouse? What happens if two widows marry? Do we end up with a 4-party marriage? How does the temporal institution of marriage on earth translate to eternal life in heaven? Does the marriage itself have a soul independent of the in individuals involved? If you dissolve a marriage (or a business) are you killing a soul?

[RZehr]

Luke 20:37-36 (& Matthew 22) answers the marriage question:

Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
Last of all the woman died also.
Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.

And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

So no, there is no marriage in heaven. The marriage does not have a soul, does not exist beyond earth. Sorry Mormons.

[temporal1]

Is everyone busy with planting garden... or is traffic here on MN just down?

There’s not much left to do on MN except argue with the resident liberals who keep yelling about how bad conservative people are.

Most of the conservatives have since dropped out.

Wow.

personally, i don’t like to forget about the read-only folks. or take for granted their views.
when they have something to say, they do. it’s a mistake to forget about quiet ones.

“Views” is an indicator of reader interest - even when replies may be few.

quiet does not mean agreement or disagreement, or lack of interest.
quiet ones usually have LOTS to say. when they choose.

the “silent partner” is often the more influential. do not underestimate.

- - - - -

PetrC,
i apologize for those who respond to you in disrespectful, know-it-all ways.

in olden times people would ask, “were you born in a barn?” suggesting a lack of maturity/education.
today “educators” are often the worst offenders. imagine what masses of children experience, at taxpayer expense.
it’s depressing to consider how low the bar is.