SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Josh

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Josh »

Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:59 pmThis thread is an example of why it is so difficult for those who take extreme positions to communicate with those who are taking a middle of the road approach. A person can say that he is not advocating for lockdowns, and the response is, "There is no established precedent of lockdowns that never end over the last 100 years."
Okay, so what is the established precedent of the last 100 years?

Most of what is being done now is ineffective and does absolutely nothing to help with COVID, like relentless wiping down of surfaces. (Although personally I do like surfaces being sparkly clean, but this doesn't do anything to save lives or prevent people from getting sick.)

Most of what is proposed recently is brand-new and untested, specifically, 6 foot social distancing and requiring masks of no particular standard in some social settings. We have no idea, at all, what the actual effect of these things are. And there is no particular reason to go along with such "mandates" particularly when done in a manner that is not lawful.

My primary concern, however, remains at telling people they cannot socialise, see their families, visit with their elderly, or congregate. Human beings have a strong need to do these things and eventually will shrivel up and die without them. It is gravely concerning that it has been acceptable now, for a year, to tell people that the most dangerous thing in the world is (a) being with other humans and (b) any kind of touching. It is utterly ridiculous to tell people not to hug their families.

In the case of Anabaptists, we have held for nearly five centuries that greeting one another is a command, and there is no "social distancing" exception for that command. It is quite concerning that so many Anabaptists seem to have decided this biblical command is, indeed, optional. If the New Testament wanted to tell us not to practice it during "extended" multi-year pandemics, it would say so.
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Ernie

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Ernie »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:03 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:43 pm And for the record, when I recommend "not going back to normal", I am not advocating for lockdowns and hazmat suits and isolation from other Christians. I'm advocating for basic health practices that have been established the last 100 years.
If basic health practices have been established for the last 100 years, wouldn't they be considered "normal" by now?
Yes, there are basic health practices that have been established for summer interaction, flu season, Sars outbreaks, and Ebola outbreaks.

However, most of us on MN exercise health practices that are foreign to most people in third world countries. Asians from big cities have "normal" health practices that are foreign to rural Americans. So what is "normal" in Sierra Leone is different from what is "normal" in the US for example. What is normal in Taiwan is also different from what is normal in the US.
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Ernie

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:02 pmMy primary concern, however, remains at telling people they cannot socialise, see their families, visit with their elderly, or congregate. Human beings have a strong need to do these things and eventually will shrivel up and die without them. It is gravely concerning that it has been acceptable now, for a year, to tell people that the most dangerous thing in the world is (a) being with other humans and (b) any kind of touching. It is utterly ridiculous to tell people not to hug their families.
I have this concern as well. That is why I said clearly in my earlier post that "I do not advocate lockdowns, hazmat suits, and isolation". It seems like you did not read this.
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ken_sylvania

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by ken_sylvania »

Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:08 pm
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:03 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:43 pm And for the record, when I recommend "not going back to normal", I am not advocating for lockdowns and hazmat suits and isolation from other Christians. I'm advocating for basic health practices that have been established the last 100 years.
If basic health practices have been established for the last 100 years, wouldn't they be considered "normal" by now?
Yes, there are basic health practices that have been established for summer interaction, flu season, Sars outbreaks, and Ebola outbreaks.

However, most of us on MN exercise health practices that are foreign to most people in third world countries. Asians from big cities have "normal" health practices that are foreign to rural Americans. So what is "normal" in Sierra Leone is different from what is "normal" in the US for example. What is normal in Taiwan is also different from what is normal in the US.
So would you say your recommendations for basic health practices moving forward might feel like "going back to normal" for me?
Things like avoiding crowds when I have a cold, hand-washing, and general cleanliness?
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Josh

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Josh »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:10 pmSo would you say your recommendations for basic health practices moving forward might feel like "going back to normal" for me?
Things like avoiding crowds when I have a cold, hand-washing, and general cleanliness?
Has anyone here ever been arguing against this? I feel like there are some straw men here.

Incidentally, the CDC now says there is no reason for vaccinated people to wear a mask indoors or outdoors, although they still say you should comply with state, federal, local, or private regulations. (That's interesting the CDC thinks you should comply with regulations that have no health effects.) In a manner of speaking, the CDC is close to coming full circle with their bold proclamations in February 2020 that there is no reason for anyone to wear a mask and that masks don't help prevent COVID transmission anyway.

Meanwhile, we have Christian pastors in Canada arrested without charges, denied access to a lawyer, and then let out after 92 hours, much as I'd imagine a secret police would do in a totalitarian state.
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Ernie

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Ernie »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:10 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:08 pm
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:03 pm
If basic health practices have been established for the last 100 years, wouldn't they be considered "normal" by now?
Yes, there are basic health practices that have been established for summer interaction, flu season, Sars outbreaks, and Ebola outbreaks.

However, most of us on MN exercise health practices that are foreign to most people in third world countries. Asians from big cities have "normal" health practices that are foreign to rural Americans. So what is "normal" in Sierra Leone is different from what is "normal" in the US for example. What is normal in Taiwan is also different from what is normal in the US.
So would you say your recommendations for basic health practices moving forward might feel like "going back to normal" for me?
Things like avoiding crowds when I have a cold, hand-washing, and general cleanliness?
That is a good start. :-)

For something as serious as Covid, (I think it is serious, I know others don't see it that way) I would also recommend coughing into your elbow, standing several feet away from someone when talking to them, masking when traveling in the same vehicle as someone not from your family, not gathering in large crowds in tight spaces, etc. These are the kinds of things many people in southeast Asia do when virus's are spreading.

FYI, If a community is practicing the things you and I mentioned here, I think it is fairly safe to give someone a hug or a cheek kiss and then step back a couple steps to talk with them.
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ken_sylvania

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by ken_sylvania »

Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:36 pm
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:10 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:08 pm
Yes, there are basic health practices that have been established for summer interaction, flu season, Sars outbreaks, and Ebola outbreaks.

However, most of us on MN exercise health practices that are foreign to most people in third world countries. Asians from big cities have "normal" health practices that are foreign to rural Americans. So what is "normal" in Sierra Leone is different from what is "normal" in the US for example. What is normal in Taiwan is also different from what is normal in the US.
So would you say your recommendations for basic health practices moving forward might feel like "going back to normal" for me?
Things like avoiding crowds when I have a cold, hand-washing, and general cleanliness?
That is a good start. :-)

For something as serious as Covid, (I think it is serious, I know others don't see it that way) I would also recommend coughing into your elbow, standing several feet away from someone when talking to them, masking when traveling in the same vehicle as someone not from your family, not gathering in large crowds in tight spaces, etc. These are the kinds of things many people in southeast Asia do when virus's are spreading.

FYI, If a community is practicing the things you and I mentioned here, I think it is fairly safe to give someone a hug or a cheek kiss and then step back a couple steps to talk with them.
Sounds like you and I would get along fairly well as long as we didn't have to travel together in the same vehicle!

:hug: [stepping back a couple steps now]

Actually if I had a chance to travel together with you somewhere I would gladly wear a mask.
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Ernie

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Ernie »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:11 pm Sounds like you and I would get along fairly well as long as we didn't have to travel together in the same vehicle!
:hug: [stepping back a couple steps now]
Actually if I had a chance to travel together with you somewhere I would gladly wear a mask.
:clap:
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Josh

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Josh »

Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:36 pmFor something as serious as Covid, (I think it is serious, I know others don't see it that way) I would also recommend coughing into your elbow, standing several feet away from someone when talking to them, masking when traveling in the same vehicle as someone not from your family, not gathering in large crowds in tight spaces, etc. These are the kinds of things many people in southeast Asia do when virus's are spreading.
If one is in SE Asia, one would comply with their etiquette there.

The fact remains that plain people in America aren't Asians in SE Asia, and they see no need to do things like wear a mask when travelling in a vehicle, and never will. Amongst the more conservative people, such behaviour is shifting into being viewed as "worldly".
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Wade

Re: SWAT Team Arrests Christian Pastor

Post by Wade »

Ernie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:59 pm
Josh wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:01 pm
And for the record, when I recommend "not going back to normal", I am not advocating for lockdowns and hazmat suits and isolation from other Christians. I'm advocating for basic health practices that have been established the last 100 years.
There is no established precedent of lockdowns that never end over the last 100 years. If we had a death rate like Spanish Flu, that would be different. In Spanish Flu entire families of children died. Do you know anybody who has lost all of their children & babies from COVID?
I said I am not advocating for lockdowns.

This thread is an example of why it is so difficult for those who take extreme positions to communicate with those who are taking a middle of the road approach. A person can say that he is not advocating for lockdowns, and the response is, "There is no established precedent of lockdowns that never end over the last 100 years." and "Okay, so we shall we live our life under endless lockdowns, not going to church, etc. forever so that "fewer new variants [can be] formed"?"

I'm finished discussing this with you unless you want to read and respond to what I wrote. :-|
Middle of the road approach :roll:

So for you who all believe the COVID numbers (which the US authorities and I've also quoted the CDC have said they) were including deaths WITH COVID. - If my step grandmother who is now in a coma dies you would be in total agreement that if so she dies WITH the vaccine and therefore it can be accurately classified as a vaccine death.

Do you see at all how far in the ditch you are?
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