Righteous Anger & Covid 19

[Valerie]

Silenced? Not hardly. They have gotten a lot of air time in certain political circles. But the medical community relies on the evidence.

Well you're revealing why you shouldn't participate in this discussion.

You want to silence me because I trust the medical community more than I trust politicized Youtube videos?

Seriously, if there are claims with evidence that should be considered, please write them down here. I evaluated a few of them in one post. Most of this thread is barely above the level of name calling. If the Youtube video answers all questions, write those answers down so we can discuss them.

Yes. I provided a video bit pride keeps you from considering. But even if you did, Im convinced pride would also keep you from believing. It doesn't matter because the doctor has been recognized for the effectiveness of his treatment. Frontline doctors in America and other doctors around the world have had effective treatments of covid that could have prevented thousands of deaths and people that want to believe in the medicine and the practice that has ended up leading 2000s of deaths, go ahead and keep believing it I will believe those that know how to save lives.

[Bootstrap]

Seriously, if there are claims with evidence that should be considered, please write them down here. I evaluated a few of them in one post. Most of this thread is barely above the level of name calling. If the Youtube video answers all questions, write those answers down so we can discuss them.

Yes. I provided a video bit pride keeps you from considering. But even if you did, I'm convinced pride would also keep you from believing.

Critical thinking and pride are not the same thing. Why can't you write down (1) a claim that you believe, and (2) the evidence given for that claim? The difference between righteous anger and stupid anger has a lot to do with taking the time to make sure that something is true, using reliable sources.

People repeatedly insist I have to watch a video that's an hour long or more because they are unwilling or unable to take 5 minutes to write down a claim and the evidence for that claim. They insist that the video answers all questions. When I watch these videos, they don't. At this point, I'm convinced there is a group of people who get most of their "information" from emotional Youtube videos and social media, and a large percent of that is misinformation. For me to evaluate the claims in these sources, I literally have to write the claims down so I can research them.

I watched some of the video, looked up the man and his research, and found that (1) the Orthodox community where he said he did his work kicked him out, saying he was lying, and (2) he doesn't seem to be able to provide his data to others so they can examine it. He won a Physician's Weekly "Skeptical Scalpel" award:

Our next second-place awardee is Dr. Vladimir “Zev” Zelenko, family practitioner and major proponent of the use of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin to treat COVID -19. Among his claims is that he treated anywhere from 300 to 1450 COVID-19 patients. Of 405 high risk patients treated early in the course of their illnesses, there were “2 deaths, four on respirators. The rest recovered fully.” Those are mighty impressive numbers, but no one else has seen the data. It should come as no surprise that the fact checking website Snopes was unable to substantiate his claims.

After community leaders in the town where he practiced criticized him for spreading misinformation, Zelenko decided to leave his practice—destination unknown.

It doesn't matter because the doctor has been recognized for the effectiveness of his treatment. Frontline doctors in America and other doctors around the world have had effective treatments of covid that could have prevented thousands of deaths and people that want to believe in the medicine and the practice that has ended up leading 2000s of deaths, go ahead and keep believing it I will believe those that know how to save lives.

America's Frontline Doctors is a group created by Tea Party Patriots Action during the election season. And it didn't last long.

AFD appears to be a new group supported and promoted by the conservative political organization Tea Party Patriots Action (TPPatriots), which shared a link to the “summit” on its website. AFD has little online presence and according to Whois, a database that tracks domains online, the americasfrontlinedoctors.com domain was created on July 16, 2020. Though the domain registry itself does not expire until 2021, the link led to a “website expired” page within 24 hours of the event airing. Breitbart reported the AFD website was “shut down” by hosting platform Squarespace. Snopes contacted the email address listed in an archived version of the website but received an email bounce-back that read, “the email account that you tried to reach does not exist.”

[Josh]

With respect, this forum would be a better place if Bootstrap and Valerie quit arguing with each other. Neither is ever going to convince the other.

[Bootstrap]

With respect, this forum would be a better place if Bootstrap and Valerie quit arguing with each other. Neither is ever going to convince the other.

This forum would be a better place if it were a lot less political and a lot more focused on (1) normal human stuff and (2) living as Christians.

But if people keep promoting things like the video in the OP here, I think we need to respond somehow. I don't think we should have a rule that says that this kind of claim should not be challenged.

[Josh]

With respect, this forum would be a better place if Bootstrap and Valerie quit arguing with each other. Neither is ever going to convince the other.

This forum would be a better place if it were a lot less political and a lot more focused on (1) normal human stuff and (2) living as Christians.

But if people keep promoting things like the video in the OP here, I think we need to respond somehow. I don't think we should have a rule that says that this kind of claim should not be challenged.

I made a decision a while ago to responding to every piece of low quality right wing click bait Valerie and temporal1 post, and instead try to find mutual ground to discuss with them.

I think there’s zero risk of either of those people leading anyone astray. You come across as nearly obsessed with “debunking”.

When I am given an opportunity to argue with elderly women, I decline. Respect for elders is important, even if they are reading news sources I think are bad.

[mike]

With respect, this forum would be a better place if Bootstrap and Valerie quit arguing with each other. Neither is ever going to convince the other.

This forum would be a better place if it were a lot less political and a lot more focused on (1) normal human stuff and (2) living as Christians.

But if people keep promoting things like the video in the OP here, I think we need to respond somehow. I don't think we should have a rule that says that this kind of claim should not be challenged.

I made a decision a while ago to responding to every piece of low quality right wing click bait Valerie and temporal1 post, and instead try to find mutual ground to discuss with them.

I think there’s zero risk of either of those people leading anyone astray. You come across as nearly obsessed with “debunking”.

When I am given an opportunity to argue with elderly women, I decline. Respect for elders is important, even if they are reading news sources I think are bad.

The utility of arguing with many people on MN is questionable. You are one of them. Like you say, it's better sometimes to just be silent and discuss when there is some common ground.

[Valerie]

Seriously, if there are claims with evidence that should be considered, please write them down here. I evaluated a few of them in one post. Most of this thread is barely above the level of name calling. If the Youtube video answers all questions, write those answers down so we can discuss them.

Yes. I provided a video bit pride keeps you from considering. But even if you did, I'm convinced pride would also keep you from believing.

Critical thinking and pride are not the same thing. Why can't you write down (1) a claim that you believe, and (2) the evidence given for that claim? The difference between righteous anger and stupid anger has a lot to do with taking the time to make sure that something is true, using reliable sources.

People repeatedly insist I have to watch a video that's an hour long or more because they are unwilling or unable to take 5 minutes to write down a claim and the evidence for that claim. They insist that the video answers all questions. When I watch these videos, they don't. At this point, I'm convinced there is a group of people who get most of their "information" from emotional Youtube videos and social media, and a large percent of that is misinformation. For me to evaluate the claims in these sources, I literally have to write the claims down so I can research them.

I watched some of the video, looked up the man and his research, and found that (1) the Orthodox community where he said he did his work kicked him out, saying he was lying, and (2) he doesn't seem to be able to provide his data to others so they can examine it. He won a Physician's Weekly "Skeptical Scalpel" award:

Our next second-place awardee is Dr. Vladimir “Zev” Zelenko, family practitioner and major proponent of the use of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin to treat COVID -19. Among his claims is that he treated anywhere from 300 to 1450 COVID-19 patients. Of 405 high risk patients treated early in the course of their illnesses, there were “2 deaths, four on respirators. The rest recovered fully.” Those are mighty impressive numbers, but no one else has seen the data. It should come as no surprise that the fact checking website Snopes was unable to substantiate his claims.

After community leaders in the town where he practiced criticized him for spreading misinformation, Zelenko decided to leave his practice—destination unknown.

It doesn't matter because the doctor has been recognized for the effectiveness of his treatment. Frontline doctors in America and other doctors around the world have had effective treatments of covid that could have prevented thousands of deaths and people that want to believe in the medicine and the practice that has ended up leading 2000s of deaths, go ahead and keep believing it I will believe those that know how to save lives.

America's Frontline Doctors is a group created by Tea Party Patriots Action during the election season. And it didn't last long.

AFD appears to be a new group supported and promoted by the conservative political organization Tea Party Patriots Action (TPPatriots), which shared a link to the “summit” on its website. AFD has little online presence and according to Whois, a database that tracks domains online, the americasfrontlinedoctors.com domain was created on July 16, 2020. Though the domain registry itself does not expire until 2021, the link led to a “website expired” page within 24 hours of the event airing. Breitbart reported the AFD website was “shut down” by hosting platform Squarespace. Snopes contacted the email address listed in an archived version of the website but received an email bounce-back that read, “the email account that you tried to reach does not exist.”

Those accusing him of lying have their evil reasons.
He has a 99% success rate with his Covid patients. You seem to have an issue with doctors that have been successful. You can hold in high esteem all you want to those that are killing the masses why not treating them correctly. There are plenty of doctors that are having success and now I have a list of them that I can turn to if I ever contract covid because they know how to keep people out of the hospital. I think your opinion of him matters diddly squat he's getting a lot of recognition and now nominated and getting awarded so bootstrap means nothing to him, he's not here to win over your approval he's here to save lives and he has God bless him for that. And he gives glory to God for it because he believes God put the ideas in his head on how to address this

[Valerie]

With respect, this forum would be a better place if Bootstrap and Valerie quit arguing with each other. Neither is ever going to convince the other.

This forum would be a better place if it were a lot less political and a lot more focused on (1) normal human stuff and (2) living as Christians.

But if people keep promoting things like the video in the OP here, I think we need to respond somehow. I don't think we should have a rule that says that this kind of claim should not be challenged.

I made a decision a while ago to responding to every piece of low quality right wing click bait Valerie and temporal1 post, and instead try to find mutual ground to discuss with them.

I think there’s zero risk of either of those people leading anyone astray. You come across as nearly obsessed with “debunking”.

When I am given an opportunity to argue with elderly women, I decline. Respect for elders is important, even if they are reading news sources I think are bad.

Thank you for the "age" honor Josh. But Boot & I are the same age. Will race you in the competition pool any day,. Customers see me & ask why they don't have the "young kids" do what I'm doing & I reply "i am the young kid"! Haven't got my cane yet but i realize Gods Word says honorable statements about us oldies so when I am old, i will hopefully live up to those words

But why you think successful doctors are right wing click bait is beyond me, there really is absolute truth out there. He & others have been successful at keeping Covid patients alive & these folks here seem to be upset about that, sad sad sad

[Wayne in Maine]

This forum would be a better place if it were a lot less political and a lot more focused on (1) normal human stuff and (2) living as Christians.

But if people keep promoting things like the video in the OP here, I think we need to respond somehow. I don't think we should have a rule that says that this kind of claim should not be challenged.

I made a decision a while ago to responding to every piece of low quality right wing click bait Valerie and temporal1 post, and instead try to find mutual ground to discuss with them.

I think there’s zero risk of either of those people leading anyone astray. You come across as nearly obsessed with “debunking”.

When I am given an opportunity to argue with elderly women, I decline. Respect for elders is important, even if they are reading news sources I think are bad.

The utility of arguing with many people on MN is questionable. You are one of them. Like you say, it's better sometimes to just be silent and discuss when there is some common ground.

It’s a real shame that there is so little common ground on Mennonet, such that every issue is contentious and people avoid discussion altogether. I’m not sure it was quite so bad on MennoDiscuss, even though we did have a small flock of penguins who eventually just talked among themselves. Quite frankly I don’t understand why some of our most prolific posters are even here on an ostensibly Mennonite forum.

[Josh]

This forum would be a better place if it were a lot less political and a lot more focused on (1) normal human stuff and (2) living as Christians.

But if people keep promoting things like the video in the OP here, I think we need to respond somehow. I don't think we should have a rule that says that this kind of claim should not be challenged.

I made a decision a while ago to responding to every piece of low quality right wing click bait Valerie and temporal1 post, and instead try to find mutual ground to discuss with them.

I think there’s zero risk of either of those people leading anyone astray. You come across as nearly obsessed with “debunking”.

When I am given an opportunity to argue with elderly women, I decline. Respect for elders is important, even if they are reading news sources I think are bad.

Thank you for the "age" honor Josh. But Boot & I are the same age. Will race you in the competition pool any day,. Customers see me & ask why they don't have the "young kids" do what I'm doing & I reply "i am the young kid"! Haven't got my cane yet but i realize Gods Word says honorable statements about us oldies so when I am old, i will hopefully live up to those words

But why you think successful doctors are right wing click bait is beyond me, there really is absolute truth out there. He & others have been successful at keeping Covid patients alive & these folks here seem to be upset about that, sad sad sad

Well, you’re one of my elders. While I don’t agree with a lot of what you say, you and I are neighbours and I prefer to find common ground. You might be me in the pool as I’ve always been a terrible slow swimmer!