Coronavirus Outbreak

[Valerie]

I dunno. Death from blood clots would seem like kind of a long-term effect. But what do I know?

Death from blood clots?

You do realize that you are about a 10,000-times more likely to get blood clots from Covid than from the Covid vaccine? Blood clotting is one of the sources of Covid mortality. Look it up:

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opin ... d-19-67727
https://www.biospace.com/article/covid- ... nd-stroke/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 134422.htm

As for the liability waivers? I don't know the story behind that. I suspect it was part of Trump's Operation Warp Speed and a deal they cut with the vaccine manufacturers to get them to go all-in as fast as possible and bet their entire companies' futures on the Covid vaccine.

Here in my area we just had a 46 year old otherwise healthy teacher die of Covid one week after testing positive. She refused to take the vaccine when offered at all the schools in the area back in mid-March. She left behind a husband and two children. Oh well. At least she didn't suffer from any vaccine side-effects:

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... id-19.html

Samantha Fox, 46, died one week after she tested positive for the coronavirus. A 6th- and 7th-grade Language Arts teacher at the middle school, family said that Fox was a beloved member of the community who spent more than 20 years teaching in the school district.

She is survived by her mother, husband and two teenage sons.

That's very sad, and very upsetting. Because there are doctors out there that have tried to get people to listen to them about protocols that are effective if applied soon after someone is diagnosed with covid. But the naysayers kept censoring them and silencing them and discrediting them but a man with a testimony is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. It's the other way around if there are doctors that have zero deaths from treating their patients that had covid then there are thousands of lives that could have been saved

[Ken]

Sure, I'm well aware of that.
Is that some kind of justification for lying?

Who's lying?

Maybe the guy that said that there are exactly zero people suffering from long-term effects of the vaccine (there is a chance this part is true although I doubt it) and that the blood clots and anaphylactic shock events are temporary and not long-term (this immediately after admitting that someone died from this). This same guy is the one who claimed a number of weeks ago that exactly zero people died from the vaccine even though that was likely not true either.

If you re-read my post you will discover that I distinguished between deaths and sub-lethal long-term effects. Blood clots can cause death. But the special type that was a rare side effect of the J&J vaccine dissipated quickly after treatment in all the women who got them. In other words, it either kills you or goes away. Same thing with those rare individuals who have an anaphylactic shock reaction to the vaccine. It is a severe reaction but goes away quickly with treatment. Unlike with Covid, There aren't any people I am aware of who have long-term side effects from the vaccine.

[Robert]

There aren't any people I am aware of who have long-term side effects from the vaccine.

I personally do not see anything to fear from the vaccine, but long term is not 4 months, but 1 year +. There could be some long term issues that develop. The science is very new to these vaccines. We can be hopeful and speculate, but we can not say there is none until we get there and find there is none.

I am not taking the vaccine, not because I fear it. I am not taking it because I do not want to tamper with MY immune system that seems to work better than most people in this world. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I take my wife in tomorrow to get her first shot. Her immune system is vastly different than mine.

Ken, I have a question for you. Since you have had your vaccine, do you still wear a mask? If so, why?

[Ken]

There aren't any people I am aware of who have long-term side effects from the vaccine.

I personally do not see anything to fear from the vaccine, but long term is not 4 months, but 1 year +. There could be some long term issues that develop. The science is very new to these vaccines. We can be hopeful and speculate, but we can not say there is none until we get there and find there is none.

I am not taking the vaccine, not because I fear it. I am not taking it because I do not want to tamper with MY immune system that seems to work better than most people in this world. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I take my wife in tomorrow to get her first shot. Her immune system is vastly different than mine.

Ken, I have a question for you. Since you have had your vaccine, do you still wear a mask? If so, why?

Only when I am required to do so which in my life which is at the school where I work and when I go into stores. I obey the law and don't find it to be a big deal. But I have gone through a bunch of different types of masks from Costco until finding some that are comfortable and don't fog up my glasses.

Why? Because I recognize we have no system of vaccine passports that would allow for quick identification of who is vaccinated and who isn't. Here in my part of SE Washington we are going through a 3rd wave at the moment that is finally starting to dissipate. So I recognize the public health authorities are still trying to beat back the spread. But I expect this mask business will getting relaxed and fade away by summer if trends continue.

But at some point soon by early summer, everyone who wants the vaccine will have had a chance to get it and after that people will stop caring so much about those still catching Covid and dying. They are also likely to get very unsympathetic treatment from the medical profession as well. My wife who has been coordinating outpatient Covid care for this region for her clinic network (supervising dozens of doctors) says they are all so burnt out with Covid that woe to those who still walk into the hospital with Covid in late 2021 after the disease becomes completely preventable. They will not get the most sympathetic reception. People are exhausted and sick to death of dealing with Covid.

[RZehr]

The rate of death due to Covid is approximately 581,676 deaths divided by 33 million cases, or 1.7%

They don’t know this. No one does. Nobody knows how many people have had Covid. Assuming this 33 million is based on some consistent counting method (positive tests?), 1.7% would be the highest possible percentage.

[Ken]

The rate of death due to Covid is approximately 581,676 deaths divided by 33 million cases, or 1.7%

They don’t know this. No one does. Nobody knows how many people have had Covid. Assuming this 33 million is based on some consistent counting method (positive tests?), 1.7% would be the highest possible percentage.

You are right. the 581,000 number is likely an enormous underestimate because a lot of people have died in this pandemic without ever having been tested. Researchers are trying to come up with better estimates of Covid deaths than the official death count. But it is a complicated thing to do.

Here is one attempt to do so that was published last week: http://www.healthdata.org/special-analy ... -19-deaths They estimated that the true Covid death toll in the US is likely over 900,000.

[RZehr]

I estimate that 99.5 to 110 million have had the virus in this country. And maybe the people who died of Covid instead of with Covid, is right about 175,000 - 188,000.
So the death rate would be somewhere between .16% and .19%.

[Robert]

We can also see the death numbers falling. While some died early, they were close to death already.



It seems that excessive deaths have surged in 2020 and will fall below normal numbers in 2021.

[Josh]

Everything you do in live involves risk. Whether it is driving to the store, eating processed foods, living in a town with high levels of ambient pollution, or living a sedentary lifestyle.

With respect to Covid, the question is, how do the risks of Covid compare to the risks of the vaccine. Here in the United States we now have the experience of approximately 33 million cases of Covid to compare with about 255 million vaccine doses that have been given to date in the US. So there is robust data to calculate the risks of each and the incidents of severe complications and death for both Covid and for the vaccines.

The rate of death due to Covid is approximately 581,676 deaths divided by 33 million cases, or 1.7%

With respect to the risks of the vaccine. The only definitive deaths that have been causally linked to the vaccine were the blood clot deaths from the J&J vaccine. of the 8 women who came down severe blood clots, only one in the US died. Or one in 255 million. That generates a risk of 0.0000004%

You can play with the numbers any way you want. But you can't get around the fact that the disease is hundreds of thousands or millions of times more deadly than the vaccine.

We can do the same calculation with sub-lethal complications. The numbers of Covid victims who are struggling with the long term effects from Covid number in the millions. The number who are suffering from long-term effects of the vaccine are exactly zero. The extremely rare blood clots and anaphylactic shock events associated with the vaccines are temporary and not long-term.

In my own circles, virtually everyone I know has had covid (around 80 or 90 percent), yet nobody has died at any rate close to 1%. In fact, I don’t have any acquaintances who have died since March/April last year time frame. The 33 million figure is way off if you want to use it to compute a death rate. L

If we assume most Americans have had it, that number goes to something closer to 0.17%, about in line with the flu.

A dear friend of mine is in the hospital right now from complications from the vaccine. He went to the doctor whilst sick with something else, a nurse advised him to get the vaccine, and he was in the hospital within an hour. Nobody has any idea what’s wrong. He couldn’t breathe and had to be out on a ventilator. I realise anecdotes are not evidence, but I have learned first and second hand of way too many strange things about this vaccine.

[Josh]

The rate of death due to Covid is approximately 581,676 deaths divided by 33 million cases, or 1.7%

They don’t know this. No one does. Nobody knows how many people have had Covid. Assuming this 33 million is based on some consistent counting method (positive tests?), 1.7% would be the highest possible percentage.

You are right. the 581,000 number is likely an enormous underestimate because a lot of people have died in this pandemic without ever having been tested. Researchers are trying to come up with better estimates of Covid deaths than the official death count. But it is a complicated thing to do.

Here is one attempt to do so that was published last week: http://www.healthdata.org/special-analy ... -19-deaths They estimated that the true Covid death toll in the US is likely over 900,000.

Considering the absence of flu deaths last year, I think it’s safe to say covid deaths were over counted, not under counted.

Accept the evidence.