Poll #1: Perspectives Related to the Covid Pandemic

[Wayne in Maine]

Well, Holmes County didn't fall for so much of this, the PLANdemic came & went through their communities, Holmes County was the first county to turn "yellow" (lowest cases) and i wholeheartedly disagree with you about what is quackery & what is not. We are turning to holitic & naturopathic doctors who have a great deal of success, and continue to watch people be harmed & die (and go broke, lining the pickets of BigPharma & insurance companies, etc). There's not time to pist all the true stories ive witnessed especially when people refuse to listen & learn, its a waste of time. But for those who are willing there is healing and life ahead for them, we are thankful for the path that God has led us on to other physicians

When I know of people that turned away from conventional treatments of cancer who had life threatening cancer and told they would die for example are good friend from Ireland and an Amish girl in our county who started conventional turned away from it and went to alternative treatments you can call it quackery but they're alive and well years later at a fraction of the cost of conventional cancer treatments. You can't tell them it's quackery when they are doing so well. We tried to convey this to our friend who had colon cancer who was beachy Amish he wouldn't listen he died left the family with over a thousand dollars medical bills which fortunately in his community they had a benefit auction and raised $82,000 towards his medical bill because they did not have insurance. My husband and I shake our heads when people call it quackery and yet are thriving in life because they didn't go conventional while others pass away. Of course we know we all have an appointed time but if people choose to live and want to live there are better ways to go. We don't rule out all conventional but we're very careful who we listen to anymore

Your belief in "alternative medicine" and contempt for "evidence based" (as opposed to anecdote based) medicine is becoming contentious. I will no longer discuss this with you.

[Josh]

I've been watching closely the reasons why people oppose masks or vaccines, or who believe that this is a hoax. Mennonite or Evangelical, or Atheist, I find the issues quite common in their objections. It really has helped me "refine" my relationships and see some groups of people differently (and more clearly).

Exactly!

.Ours as well.. I've noticed the Amish seem to know instinctively (prayerfully, Godly wisdom, that which others rely on man. I value how they are "guided"

Well, unless it’s relying on a certain man in Florida or Wisconsin.

[Josh]

Well, Holmes County didn't fall for so much of this, the PLANdemic came & went through their communities, Holmes County was the first county to turn "yellow" (lowest cases) and i wholeheartedly disagree with you about what is quackery & what is not. We are turning to holitic & naturopathic doctors who have a great deal of success, and continue to watch people be harmed & die (and go broke, lining the pickets of BigPharma & insurance companies, etc). There's not time to pist all the true stories ive witnessed especially when people refuse to listen & learn, its a waste of time. But for those who are willing there is healing and life ahead for them, we are thankful for the path that God has led us on to other physicians

When I know of people that turned away from conventional treatments of cancer who had life threatening cancer and told they would die for example are good friend from Ireland and an Amish girl in our county who started conventional turned away from it and went to alternative treatments you can call it quackery but they're alive and well years later at a fraction of the cost of conventional cancer treatments. You can't tell them it's quackery when they are doing so well. We tried to convey this to our friend who had colon cancer who was beachy Amish he wouldn't listen he died left the family with over a thousand dollars medical bills which fortunately in his community they had a benefit auction and raised $82,000 towards his medical bill because they did not have insurance. My husband and I shake our heads when people call it quackery and yet are thriving in life because they didn't go conventional while others pass away. Of course we know we all have an appointed time but if people choose to live and want to live there are better ways to go. We don't rule out all conventional but we're very careful who we listen to anymore

Your belief in "alternative medicine" and contempt for "evidence based" (as opposed to anecdote based) medicine is becoming contentious. I will no longer discuss this with you.

But if one does believe in “evidence”, then you’ll have to deal with how covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now. For example, there wasn’t any spread at AIC (the event you call so irresponsible).

Irresponsible is whatever NY and NJ did to have a ridiculously high death rate. Responsible is whatever Holmes Co. did - Pomerene Hospital never got close to being “full”.

[Wayne in Maine]

Well, Holmes County didn't fall for so much of this, the PLANdemic came & went through their communities, Holmes County was the first county to turn "yellow" (lowest cases) and i wholeheartedly disagree with you about what is quackery & what is not. We are turning to holitic & naturopathic doctors who have a great deal of success, and continue to watch people be harmed & die (and go broke, lining the pickets of BigPharma & insurance companies, etc). There's not time to pist all the true stories ive witnessed especially when people refuse to listen & learn, its a waste of time. But for those who are willing there is healing and life ahead for them, we are thankful for the path that God has led us on to other physicians

When I know of people that turned away from conventional treatments of cancer who had life threatening cancer and told they would die for example are good friend from Ireland and an Amish girl in our county who started conventional turned away from it and went to alternative treatments you can call it quackery but they're alive and well years later at a fraction of the cost of conventional cancer treatments. You can't tell them it's quackery when they are doing so well. We tried to convey this to our friend who had colon cancer who was beachy Amish he wouldn't listen he died left the family with over a thousand dollars medical bills which fortunately in his community they had a benefit auction and raised $82,000 towards his medical bill because they did not have insurance. My husband and I shake our heads when people call it quackery and yet are thriving in life because they didn't go conventional while others pass away. Of course we know we all have an appointed time but if people choose to live and want to live there are better ways to go. We don't rule out all conventional but we're very careful who we listen to anymore

Your belief in "alternative medicine" and contempt for "evidence based" (as opposed to anecdote based) medicine is becoming contentious. I will no longer discuss this with you.

But if one does believe in “evidence”, then you’ll have to deal with how covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now. For example, there wasn’t any spread at AIC (the event you call so irresponsible).

Not true.

Many in plain communities refuse to get tested. Where testing has been done the rates have been high. We do not know about the spread from a specific event like AIC if there has been no testing or reporting by participants.

I’ll cite the articles on Covid in Plain Communities later when I have access to my computer.

[Josh]

Your belief in "alternative medicine" and contempt for "evidence based" (as opposed to anecdote based) medicine is becoming contentious. I will no longer discuss this with you.

But if one does believe in “evidence”, then you’ll have to deal with how covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now. For example, there wasn’t any spread at AIC (the event you call so irresponsible).

Not true.

Many in plain communities refuse to get tested. Where testing has been done the rates have been high. We do not know about the spread from a specific event like AIC if there has been no testing or reporting by participants.

I’ll cite the articles on Covid in Plain Communities later when I have access to my computer.

In the community, there is not much respect for “testing” or “cases”. What matters is severe illness or death, which simply hasn’t been a problem for quite some time.

If the government threatens to impose shutdowns if there are too many cases, an obvious response is to avoid getting tested. In any case, there is no evidence of any death spread from AIC. (And you can rest assured it was monitored by the relevant health department and local law enforcement.)

[PeterG]

Covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now.

This simply isn't true. I know multiple conservative Mennonites who have had COVID within the last month.

[Dan Z]

Covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now.

This simply isn't true. I know multiple conservative Mennonites who have had COVID within the last month.

Some empirical evidence either way here would be nice...all we've got thus far is anecdotal assertions. I had asked for some data from Josh in this regard earlier with no response.

As I had earlier cited, looking at data from Amish-heavy counties (Elkart, Lancaster, Holmes, etc.) it appears that if anything the Covid death rates are a bit higher in these areas than in their surrounding counties (death rates may be the best indicator of infection if the Amish are not prone to get tested). So...where is the data on Covid's nonexistence in the plain community?

[Wade]

Covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now.

This simply isn't true. I know multiple conservative Mennonites who have had COVID within the last month.

If people are going to continue to point out what isn't true, then maybe they should also stop agreeing with people like Wayne proclaiming he knows people's motives and who is selfish or not.

[Josh]

Covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now.

This simply isn't true. I know multiple conservative Mennonites who have had COVID within the last month.

Some empirical evidence either way here would be nice...all we've got thus far is anecdotal assertions. I had asked for some data from Josh in this regard earlier with no response.

As I had earlier cited, looking at data from Amish-heavy counties (Elkart, Lancaster, Holmes, etc.) it appears that if anything the Covid death rates are a bit higher in these areas than in their surrounding counties (death rates may be the best indicator of infection of the Amish are not prone to get tested). So...where is the data on Covid's nonexistence in the plain community?

The data I have been following is obituaries in the budget and in church periodicals. Basically, they are at “normal” levels.

As I’ve stated before, there was a big bump in the spring of last year.

[Valerie]

But if one does believe in “evidence”, then you’ll have to deal with how covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now. For example, there wasn’t any spread at AIC (the event you call so irresponsible).

Not true.

Many in plain communities refuse to get tested. Where testing has been done the rates have been high. We do not know about the spread from a specific event like AIC if there has been no testing or reporting by participants.

I’ll cite the articles on Covid in Plain Communities later when I have access to my computer.

In the community, there is not much respect for “testing” or “cases”. What matters is severe illness or death, which simply hasn’t been a problem for quite some time.

If the government threatens to impose shutdowns if there are too many cases, an obvious response is to avoid getting tested. In any case, there is no evidence of any death spread from AIC. (And you can rest assured it was monitored by the relevant health department and local law enforcement.)

I honestly think that is why the state government seems to turn a blind eye in Holmes County & leaves them alone it seems. We've been visiting there just about weekly since the Covid started. Eating at their restaurants since they opened back up in May O2020) with maskless servers, signs on doors stating if you're uncomfortable with that, please do not enter. Shopping in their stores, attending a couple crowded auctions ( they continued their auctions). One time we were in a grocery store early on. We were in line to pay at the register and I said to my husband's step back you're getting too close (social distancing) and the man ahead of us who was not Amish or mennonite, turned around and said ,"we don't worry about that here. "

I've known people in Holmes that had it, didn't hospitalize them but they did get tested.

I wondered if God wanted them to be an example- because at least in our parts, they have been