Mennonite Church USA says defund the police

[Bootstrap]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder?

Sure, if it makes them feel better. It is mostly just pontificating to their own people. No one else cares. Where is the line into self importance and how close to situations does one need to be to issue a public position onto societies ears? Has the Society of Hares, Horses, & Hamsters weighed in yet? Or the Central Oregon Pear Society?
To be fully woke, I suppose we ought to each personally ensure that our personal position on each crime committed is known by all. Join our personal voice to the cacophony of chaos, and not be content with MCUSA or any group speak for us.

So what criteria would you use for when a church should speak to injustice?

Persecuted Christians? Refugees? What if the police were randomly murdering street people, as has happened in Brazil? Rounding up Jews and putting them in concentration camps? Gun legislation? Lynchings? When should a church or a Christian speak to any of these things?

I have neighbors who are black and who have seen one case after another that looks, to them at least, like police murdering black people and getting away with it. They did not expect justice in this case, they were surprised when it came. And they were relieved when they realized they could safely talk to me about their perceptions of these things. I suspect I need to at least be in a position to listen to people sympathetically about these things.

[temporal1]

i hope you discussed the problems of unions protecting+enabling incompetent+corrupt employees.
i hope you aren’t suggesting RZehr does not have a good Christian witness to others. at least as good as yours. right?
i trust him.

[Bootstrap]

i hope you discussed the problems of unions protecting+enabling incompetent+corrupt employees.
i hope you aren’t suggesting RZehr does not have a good Christian witness to others. at least as good as yours. right?
i trust him.

Temp, I really am asking some boundary questions to try to clarify what he thinks. I am not trying to cast him or myself in a good or bad light, question his witness, claim to have clear answers, or anything like that. And when it comes down to it, it's very difficult to have a serious conversation about these questions if people keep turning it into "who are the good people and who are the bad people". Could we please keep the focus on the topic and on the questions we are trying to sort out?

I am interested in this precisely because I struggle with the boundaries myself. I think that the Old Testament prophets had things to say about injustice, and that Jesus actually does echo them quite a bit. But I also agree that Christianity is not about taking political positions, certainly not extreme ones. So what is the Christian voice in the face of injustice?

I don't think MC-USA got it remotely right in this case. I'm not sure we do any better on MN on an average day. I'm trying to figure out what right looks like.

[RZehr]

Maybe once you’ve injected yourself into politics and policy as the solution to this worlds injustices, your political opponents and allies pay attention to what you say.
But churches should be known as separate from politics. Our is a spiritual fight, and is in the trenches. No matter what policy may or may not be, we should still consistently do the right things. That is what churches should do. Maybe less noise and more doing.

If churches were powerless politically, didn’t vote, didn’t campaign, they’d likely be pretty much ignored my policy makers because it wouldn’t matter.

The Catholic Church and the Southern Baptists can effect policy because of their political muscle. And because they flex that muscle on the political stage, they are completely tuned out by certain segments of society. Michael Jordan stayed out of politics because as he famously said, “Republicans buy shoes too.” He understood that to maximize his audience, or in his case customers, it was good to keep his primary message clear and he cast off the background noise. We should too.

MCUSA is a poser, just like so many churches (churches on the right too) who are struggling mightily to retain some level of relevance. These churches only seem to “Speak out” on things that are simultaneously (a) In the news and (b) popular positions that align with their choice of political party.

[temporal1]

Maybe once you’ve injected yourself into politics and policy as the solution to this worlds injustices, your political opponents and allies pay attention to what you say.
But churches should be known as separate from politics. Our is a spiritual fight, and is in the trenches. No matter what policy may or may not be, we should still consistently do the right things. That is what churches should do. Maybe less noise and more doing.

If churches were powerless politically, didn’t vote, didn’t campaign, they’d likely be pretty much ignored my policy makers because it wouldn’t matter.

The Catholic Church and the Southern Baptists can effect policy because of their political muscle. And because they flex that muscle on the political stage, they are completely tuned out by certain segments of society. Michael Jordan stayed out of politics because as he famously said, “Republicans buy shoes too.” He understood that to maximize his audience, or in his case customers, it was good to keep his primary message clear and he cast off the background noise. We should too.

MCUSA is a poser, just like so many churches (churches on the right too) who are struggling mightily to retain some level of relevance. These churches only seem to “Speak out” on things that are simultaneously (a) In the news and (b) popular positions that align with their choice of political party.

Wow. Quite a statement.
Unfortunately, unless-until they understand in perspective, they are convinced they are “right.” so to speak.
New members hardly have a chance, they accept what’s in front of them, rarely question further.

There is a Quaker Friends’ Meeting House not too far from me. i’m interested. but sad.
when i viewed their website/FB page, it looked more like a political meeting place than a house for worship.
it’s near the local large state university. i’m sure it’s full of do gooders.

There’s a Universalist church and an MCUSA there abouts, too.
No complaints about lib political activists in churches! “That’s how God wants it!”
Otherwise, “Christian” is a dirty word.

[Bootstrap]

Maybe once you’ve injected yourself into politics and policy as the solution to this worlds injustices, your political opponents and allies pay attention to what you say.
But churches should be known as separate from politics. Our is a spiritual fight, and is in the trenches. No matter what policy may or may not be, we should still consistently do the right things. That is what churches should do. Maybe less noise and more doing.

The congregations I have joined have been like that. Not much noise, lots of service. MN tends not to look like that because (1) most people don't want to brag about the service they are doing, and some don't want to be too public about who they are, and (2) on a forum, offering opinions is a very natural thing to do, even if people would not say the same things to me if we were going to church together.

There are MC-USA congregations locally who are very political. Two were involved in creating that program. That's a source of some tension.

If churches were powerless politically, didn’t vote, didn’t campaign, they’d likely be pretty much ignored by policy makers because it wouldn’t matter.

Worse things could happen.

The Catholic Church and the Southern Baptists can effect policy because of their political muscle. And because they flex that muscle on the political stage, they are completely tuned out by certain segments of society. Michael Jordan stayed out of politics because as he famously said, “Republicans buy shoes too.” He understood that to maximize his audience, or in his case customers, it was good to keep his primary message clear and he cast off the background noise. We should too.

MCUSA is a poser, just like so many churches (churches on the right too) who are struggling mightily to retain some level of relevance. These churches only seem to “Speak out” on things that are simultaneously (a) In the news and (b) popular positions that align with their choice of political party.

The need MC-USA feels to issue press releases is genuinely baffling sometimes.

Still, I do think taking a stand against injustice matters. Especially when some of my neighbors are convinced that most Christians just don't care about things that are weighing heavily on them. Even if it's as simple as saying, "yeah, what Chauvin did to George Floyd was inexcusable, and I'm glad he didn't get away with it. Too many police have". I don't need a press release to say that to a neighbor who wonders if I care about this thing that is weighing on him.

[RZehr]

[Even if it's as simple as saying, "yeah, what Chauvin did to George Floyd was inexcusable, and I'm glad he didn't get away with it. Too many police have". I don't need a press release to say that to a neighbor who wonders if I care about this thing that is weighing on him.

I agree with this approach.

[Josh]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder? Should Christians or churches voice concerns about injustice? If so, how?

MC USA probably should consider long and hard why they are making the exact same public statements as giant megacorps, left wing partisan organisations, and many other groups that have zilch to do with following Jesus.

[Sudsy]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder? Should Christians or churches voice concerns about injustice? If so, how?

If only there would be as much concern about the eternal destiny of people. Did Jesus get involved with trying to change the slave system they were under ? When Christians and churches think they should have a say about how unregenerate folks are running the world, I think we have strayed far from the mission of Christianity.

We have opportunity to tell people that what happens in this life, with all it's unfairness and injustice, that there is a life to be lived as a Kingdom citizen and focus on our own living in this Kingdom. Tons of time being wasted on critiquing how unregenerated people think and live. And Jesus didn't ignore the slavery system but believers were told how to live in that system- both slave and slave master. What governments and police do while we live here as representatives of another country need our example not words on how sinners should be better sinners.

How should Christians voice concerns about injustice was one question. They don't. They share the Gospel and demonstrate just ways of treating their neighbour. Our concern is not how well worldly leaders run this world but rather ,should be, that people know that none of this matters and they see in us the fruit of the Spirit in the Kingdom way of life.

[Josh]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder? Should Christians or churches voice concerns about injustice? If so, how?

If only there would be as much concern about the eternal destiny of people. Did Jesus get involved with trying to change the slave system they were under ? When Christians and churches think they should have a say about how unregenerate folks are running the world, I think we have strayed far from the mission of Christianity.

We have opportunity to tell people that what happens in this life, with all it's unfairness and injustice, that there is a life to be lived as a Kingdom citizen and focus on our own living in this Kingdom. Tons of time being wasted on critiquing how unregenerated people think and live. And Jesus didn't ignore the slavery system but believers were told how to live in that system- both slave and slave master. What governments and police do while we live here as representatives of another country need our example not words on how sinners should be better sinners.

How should Christians voice concerns about injustice was one question. They don't. They share the Gospel and demonstrate just ways of treating their neighbour. Our concern is not how well worldly leaders run this world but rather ,should be, that people know that none of this matters and they see in us the fruit of the Spirit in the Kingdom way of life.

The New Testament’s answer to widespread slavery is to teach us that we should be slaves of Christ.