Randal Martin on the CAM/Jeriah Debacle

[steve-in-kville]

Anyone from CAM is free to join here, answer questions, and correct misconceptions and misinformation. The fact CAM is so silent speaks volumes.

We've been suggesting that for almost two years now....

ETA: Honestly, when dealing with something upending like this, sometimes there's just nothing to say. Or you don't know what to say. Or saying anything simply makes it worse.

I'd like to think I see both ends of this.... but it has been nearly two years...

[Soloist]

These are reasons that the local church, or church groups should really be the avenue through which people are helped. Not para church organizations. These are a modern day western phenomenon, probably due to US tax codes, in conjunction with a growing arms length (digital?) relationship people have with churches.

You can, in my opinion, add to that the whole concept of "Christian counseling". I believe that if the local church is functioning properly, then there will be gifts to deal with non-medical needs. "Building each other up in love" is something we seem to be losing, and the prohibition against in-person gathering of the believers seems to have accelerated this. (IMO)

This is a topic worthy of more discussion, the growing fad of “counselling” amongst plain people,
Such as building counselling centres that have hardly any patients yet solicit big donations.

doesn't seem like the local body is very equipped to actually help anything other then what is common to them.

[KrisKramer]

I have been very emotionally and mentally raw lately.

Speaking out about Grandpa Harold Herr and knowing no justice will probably ever be served and that he (a pedo) is loved and lifted high in the plain community. That a man can get away with documented csa and beasiality (since the 1970s and on) and still be a Menno preacher (at one point) and a missionary through CAM and everything and people defend CAM as a wonderful org. It all just is like a punch in the face.

Everything beats you down. It hits you over and over. When you are someone who has experienced something like this and your abuser is more welcome at some gatherings then you are.

CAM had access to info on stuff HH had done before they even left him go to Haiti if they had even wanted to know truth.

When will truth matter?

But no....CAM needs to be defended.

To people defending CAM so hard I ask again....
Would you still be defending CAM this hard if I was your son or daughter telling you these things?

[Soloist]

I have been very emotionally and mentally raw lately.

Speaking out about Grandpa Harold Herr and knowing no justice will probably ever be served and that he (a pedo) is loved and lifted high in the plain community. That a man can get away with documented csa and beasiality (since the 1970s and on) and still be a Menno preacher (at one point) and a missionary through CAM and everything and people defend CAM as a wonderful org. It all just is like a punch in the face.

Everything beats you down. It hits you over and over. When you are someone who has experienced something like this and your abuser is more welcome at some gatherings then you are.

CAM had access to info on stuff HH had done before they even left him go to Haiti if they had even wanted to know truth.

When will truth matter?

But no....CAM needs to be defended.

To people defending CAM so hard I ask again....
Would you still be defending CAM this hard if I was your son or daughter telling you these things?

Documented? If you showed me documented proof that CAM was ignoring provable statements, they would lose my money. If you already posted this elsewhere, I'd be happy with a link.
My unnamed relative made a statement of abuse against another relative... we were the only ones in my family willing to take it seriously... its not just Mennonites...

If my son or my daughter told me these things and they had an established track record of honesty, I would believe them and all others ignored. At all cost... I don't know you, I don't know HH, I don't really know anyone at CAM. I know Ernie loosely and I know some of the phone team. Otherwise... No connections.

That being said, I heard the same things said about William M and I never actually saw proof. Just reports from people that were not willing to be identified... the other problem was it was years ago that it happened.
Did you ever go to the law? did they dismiss it as irrelevant?

I was a sexual assault advocate in the Navy... I actually dealt with two cases and both times... no offense to them, they were being stupid. Going to a hotel room alone with your boyfriend on a 4 day weekend... The other one was so out there that I pitied the guy. I didn't stay with him because he ended up requesting a woman which was understandable. One remained private, the other unfortunately was reported to the quarterdeck. She would have rather it remained private...

Nothing in those cases compared to your situation... The other cases I was aware of after the military were dealt with quickly. One went to prison for 27 years, the other was in prison when I learned of it. Both had serious damage done to the victims and I have sympathy but couldn't begin to relate.
On the flip side, we had (prior to me) a man repentant of serious crimes that he served time for and he died faithful. He was never left alone though at church.

[KrisKramer]

I have been very emotionally and mentally raw lately.

Speaking out about Grandpa Harold Herr and knowing no justice will probably ever be served and that he (a pedo) is loved and lifted high in the plain community. That a man can get away with documented csa and beasiality (since the 1970s and on) and still be a Menno preacher (at one point) and a missionary through CAM and everything and people defend CAM as a wonderful org. It all just is like a punch in the face.

Everything beats you down. It hits you over and over. When you are someone who has experienced something like this and your abuser is more welcome at some gatherings then you are.

CAM had access to info on stuff HH had done before they even left him go to Haiti if they had even wanted to know truth.

When will truth matter?

But no....CAM needs to be defended.

To people defending CAM so hard I ask again....
Would you still be defending CAM this hard if I was your son or daughter telling you these things?

Documented? If you showed me documented proof that CAM was ignoring provable statements, they would lose my money. If you already posted this elsewhere, I'd be happy with a link.
My unnamed relative made a statement of abuse against another relative... we were the only ones in my family willing to take it seriously... its not just Mennonites...

If my son or my daughter told me these things and they had an established track record of honesty, I would believe them and all others ignored. At all cost... I don't know you, I don't know HH, I don't really know anyone at CAM. I know Ernie loosely and I know some of the phone team. Otherwise... No connections.

That being said, I heard the same things said about William M and I never actually saw proof. Just reports from people that were not willing to be identified... the other problem was it was years ago that it happened.
Did you ever go to the law? did they dismiss it as irrelevant?

I was a sexual assault advocate in the Navy... I actually dealt with two cases and both times... no offense to them, they were being stupid. Going to a hotel room alone with your boyfriend on a 4 day weekend... The other one was so out there that I pitied the guy. I didn't stay with him because he ended up requesting a woman which was understandable. One remained private, the other unfortunately was reported to the quarterdeck. She would have rather it remained private...

Nothing in those cases compared to your situation... The other cases I was aware of after the military were dealt with quickly. One went to prison for 27 years, the other was in prison when I learned of it. Both had serious damage done to the victims and I have sympathy but couldn't begin to relate.
On the flip side, we had (prior to me) a man repentant of serious crimes that he served time for and he died faithful. He was never left alone though at church.

It has been shared on here what Uncle Dan shared with CAM also Trudy's blog has copies of that stuff too.

[Grace]

I have been very emotionally and mentally raw lately.

Speaking out about Grandpa Harold Herr and knowing no justice will probably ever be served and that he (a pedo) is loved and lifted high in the plain community. That a man can get away with documented csa and beasiality (since the 1970s and on) and still be a Menno preacher (at one point) and a missionary through CAM and everything and people defend CAM as a wonderful org. It all just is like a punch in the face.

Everything beats you down. It hits you over and over. When you are someone who has experienced something like this and your abuser is more welcome at some gatherings then you are.

CAM had access to info on stuff HH had done before they even left him go to Haiti if they had even wanted to know truth.

When will truth matter?

But no....CAM needs to be defended.

To people defending CAM so hard I ask again....
Would you still be defending CAM this hard if I was your son or daughter telling you these things?

I have seen no one here defend the actions of CAM's leadership in reference to Jeriah Mast or Harold Herr.

I am sorry for your pain and being emotionally and mentally raw is understandable. Is there someone who can give you guidance and help emotionally and mentally?

Please do not castigate those who defend the relief given to the poor and needy around the world by CAM. The issues of their leadership's abominable handling of JM and HH needs to be separated from their relief work. Add to that, there are many upstanding people who work for them that had nothing to do with that situation. Defending the relief given to the thousands of poor and needy is NOT defending how they handled JM and HH.

I know there are those who think CAM should be closed down permanently, due to their mistakes. But when we look beyond ourselves and to the poor and needy they help, it seems uncharitable for us well fed, rich Americans to deny the many impoverished the help gotten from CAM, because we don't like how a few handled a situation.

[KrisKramer]

I have been very emotionally and mentally raw lately.

Speaking out about Grandpa Harold Herr and knowing no justice will probably ever be served and that he (a pedo) is loved and lifted high in the plain community. That a man can get away with documented csa and beasiality (since the 1970s and on) and still be a Menno preacher (at one point) and a missionary through CAM and everything and people defend CAM as a wonderful org. It all just is like a punch in the face.

Everything beats you down. It hits you over and over. When you are someone who has experienced something like this and your abuser is more welcome at some gatherings then you are.

CAM had access to info on stuff HH had done before they even left him go to Haiti if they had even wanted to know truth.

When will truth matter?

But no....CAM needs to be defended.

To people defending CAM so hard I ask again....
Would you still be defending CAM this hard if I was your son or daughter telling you these things?

I have seen no one here defend the actions of CAM's leadership in reference to Jeriah Mast or Harold Herr.

I am sorry for your pain and being emotionally and mentally raw is understandable. Is there someone who can give you guidance and help emotionally and mentally?

Please do not castigate those who defend the relief given to the poor and needy around the world by CAM. The issues of their leadership's abominable handling of JM and HH needs to be separated from their relief work. Add to that, there are many upstanding people who work for them that had nothing to do with that situation. Defending the relief given to the thousands of poor and needy is NOT defending how they handled JM and HH.

I know there are those who think CAM should be closed down permanently, due to their mistakes. But when we look beyond ourselves and to the poor and needy they help, it seems uncharitable for us well fed, rich Americans to deny the many impoverished the help gotten from CAM, because we don't like how they handled a situation.

I agree with helping the poor and needy but I worry how many poor and needy might be being assaulted in this manor by other employees of CAM. When there's already been 2....are there only 2?

This is a path that is ripe for abuse by people like that so a company in charge of stuff like this needs to work hard to keep people like that out.

I do NOT trust CAM to do that

[Grace]

I agree with helping the poor and needy but I worry how many poor and needy might be being assaulted in this manor by other employees of CAM. When there's already been 2....are there only 2?

This is a path that is ripe for abuse by people like that so a company in charge of stuff like this needs to work hard to keep people like that out.

I do NOT trust CAM to do that

I sincerely hope they learned their lesson going forward.

What should have happened is all those who knew about JM and HH be fired from their positions and replaced. That way the organization could continue and the people they help not be denied the help they so desperately need. And the thousands of people, both employees and the people CAM helps, should not have to suffer because of the mistakes of a few in the organization's administration.

I can understand your issue with trust, which is why I think there should have been more consequences for those in leadership who overlooked the horrific abuses

[Soloist]

It has been shared on here what Uncle Dan shared with CAM also Trudy's blog has copies of that stuff too.

Can you link me what Dan said? I can't access Trudy's blog, its blocked for the graphic nature. You could also private message me your proof if you chose.

[Joy]

Here's a relevant question. Is God's blessing on a ministry who has sent pedophiles into the field to abuse children? Ministries that I had trusted but were found to have corruption--be it sexual, financial, or power issues--never received another dollar from me, because I felt God's hand was no longer (if it ever was) on them.

If we're going to ignore the spiritual aspect of charitable groups, then why not give to secular organizations (I don't)? It's a lot worse to find wickedness in Christian ministries, right? And I think I can show examples from Scriptures where God held a whole group of His people accountable when a very few had committed the sin (even when the rest may not have known about it).