Randal Martin on the CAM/Jeriah Debacle

[steve-in-kville]

CAM made a terrible mistake in the Jeriah Mast situation, but the larger picture is that they are still providing a need for the poor and needy around the world.

Grace, I see your point, really I do. Unfortunately, time has proven to me that the only way to a Mennonite's heart is through their wallet. Until the funding dries up, nothing will change. This sounds harsh, but I quite sure its realistic.

[Grace]

CAM made a terrible mistake in the Jeriah Mast situation, but the larger picture is that they are still providing a need for the poor and needy around the world.

Grace, I see your point, really I do. Unfortunately, time has proven to me that the only way to a Mennonite's heart is through their wallet. Until the funding dries up, nothing will change. This sounds harsh, but I quite sure its realistic.

I understand where you are coming from. But when hurting their wallet, people are severely hurting the poor, impoverished people CAM provides relief for. The two cannot be separated, one comes with the other. You may respectfully disagree with me, but I do not think we well-fed, rich Americans have the right to say to the people who CAM provides relief for, that they should have that help dried up because we want to hurt CAM's wallets.

[steve-in-kville]

CAM made a terrible mistake in the Jeriah Mast situation, but the larger picture is that they are still providing a need for the poor and needy around the world.

Grace, I see your point, really I do. Unfortunately, time has proven to me that the only way to a Mennonite's heart is through their wallet. Until the funding dries up, nothing will change. This sounds harsh, but I quite sure its realistic.

I understand where you are coming from. But when hurting their wallet, people are severely hurting the poor, impoverished people CAM provides relief for. The two cannot be separated, one comes with the other. You may respectfully disagree with me, but I do not think we well-fed, rich Americans have the right to say to the people who CAM provides relief for, that they should have that help dried up because we want to hurt CAM's wallets.

I agree with you 100%. Its easy to forget about the good that has come out of CAM over the past few decades. No one should have to suffer because of a few dirt bags in an organization.

But realistically... and we've beaten this dead horse over and over... how else do you force real change?

[mike]

CAM made a terrible mistake in the Jeriah Mast situation, but the larger picture is that they are still providing a need for the poor and needy around the world.

Grace, I see your point, really I do. Unfortunately, time has proven to me that the only way to a Mennonite's heart is through their wallet. Until the funding dries up, nothing will change. This sounds harsh, but I quite sure its realistic.

I understand where you are coming from. But when hurting their wallet, people are severely hurting the poor, impoverished people CAM provides relief for. The two cannot be separated, one comes with the other. You may respectfully disagree with me, but I do not think we well-fed, rich Americans have the right to say to the people who CAM provides relief for, that they should have that help dried up because we want to hurt CAM's wallets.

It's very simple. You could just redirect your giving to other organizations that are doing the same thing as CAM. However I assume many of CAM's donors don't really know of many other organizations that have similar infrastructure, history, trust, shared values, and portfolio of aid programs.

For the record I am one of those that still trusts CAM with some of my giving.

[Dan Z]

For the record I am one of those that still trusts CAM with some of my giving.

I'm at the same point Mike - I continue to support CAM because I know first hand the good they do, and how they represent my values. That being said, I remain deeply disappointed that they haven't responded with the institutional transparency and third-party accountability that the situation demanded. My trust is not what it once was...I wonder sometimes how many of us disappointed donors like me there are out here.

[Grace]

Grace, I see your point, really I do. Unfortunately, time has proven to me that the only way to a Mennonite's heart is through their wallet. Until the funding dries up, nothing will change. This sounds harsh, but I quite sure its realistic.

I understand where you are coming from. But when hurting their wallet, people are severely hurting the poor, impoverished people CAM provides relief for. The two cannot be separated, one comes with the other. You may respectfully disagree with me, but I do not think we well-fed, rich Americans have the right to say to the people who CAM provides relief for, that they should have that help dried up because we want to hurt CAM's wallets.

It's very simple. You could just redirect your giving to other organizations that are doing the same thing as CAM. However I assume many of CAM's donors don't really know of many other organizations that have similar infrastructure, history, trust, shared values, and portfolio of aid programs.

For the record I am one of those that still trusts CAM with some of my giving.

I agree. Hubby and I are open to other organizations who provide relief. Here in Lancaster County we have Blessings of Hope. And even though we do not agree with some of MCC's politics, we realize they provide relief and have provided relief to millions in the past and in the present and will donate to them as well.

[steve-in-kville]

Here in Lancaster County we have Blessings of Hope.

I support them as well, as does my employer. They helped a lot of people through the pandemic last year.

[temporal1]

Grace, I see your point, really I do. Unfortunately, time has proven to me that the only way to a Mennonite's heart is through their wallet. Until the funding dries up, nothing will change. This sounds harsh, but I quite sure its realistic.

I understand where you are coming from. But when hurting their wallet, people are severely hurting the poor, impoverished people CAM provides relief for. The two cannot be separated, one comes with the other. You may respectfully disagree with me, but I do not think we well-fed, rich Americans have the right to say to the people who CAM provides relief for, that they should have that help dried up because we want to hurt CAM's wallets.

I agree with you 100%. Its easy to forget about the good that has come out of CAM over the past few decades. No one should have to suffer because of a few dirt bags in an organization.

But realistically... and we've beaten this dead horse over and over... how else do you force real change?

Here is where i become seriously puzzled.

What is this black+white attitude?
Whether it’s abortion/pro life, or funding for an overall effective charitable organization, why are choices seen as “NEVER!” or, “FOREVER!” (i see this as a widespread message, not just on the forum.) not at all.

Even when Honduras Keiser suggests the U.S. should end Foreign Aid (because the funds do not get to intended problems+people, easily believed) - i don’t see that as “never again,” but, UNTIL corruption is addressed.

Of course, to easily control the masses, politicians want “black+white,” the SIMPLER the message, the more easily perpetrated - FOR THEIR IMMEDIATE POWER. (“Orange Man Bad” is a prime example.) SIMPLICITY for big control.

But, individuals, the public, believers, can hope to think and act above (dog whistles).

If i understand anything about human nature, it does not take long after pulling plugs for MOST to respond!
Like ripping off a band aid. Do it and get it over with.

It’s likely there may be some temporary damage.
But, even those harmed temporarily might soon have a better foundation to build on, after the storm.

There should be no pretenses that any correction is PERMANENT.
This is part+parcel with life on earth: ongoing accountability, vigilance, failing+rebuilding.
There is no “once+done.”

SIN HURTS in a broad ripple effect. That’s not a human law, it’s God’s design.
If sin did not hurt so much, hurt so many, what a worse mess this world would be! God knows this.
Humans think we are smarter than God. trouble follows.

As Grace (and mike) mention, tho, regarding CAM donors:
There is no reason to altogether stop doing+giving if suspending donations.

God rewards ongoing submission, repentance, obedience.

CAM is unlikely to collapse if funds dry up. Regroup? - much more likely.
i suspect measures have been taken -
the level of outside pressure is highly likely to be commensurate with how much and for how long.
it’s human nature.

i am troubled about abuse of SIMPLE “dog whistles” out there. the internet is a PRIME tool for it.
effort could be made to resist the temptation of SIMPLE, and seek at least slightly more nuanced responses.

the world is not OSAS. altho the internet prefers it, life is more than that.

-anything?

[Neto]

In reading the last few posts here, I was reminded of a different "scandal", and two different organizations, one of which I was a member, and the other which I often cooperated with at a deep level, and also benefited from.
I was a Wycliffe Bible Translator member for around 35 years. Prior to that, a group of builders organized a helping ministry to work along side WBT, calling it "Wycliffe Associates". My father-in-law headed up his first work crew (to build a house for a WBT support worker) under WA in 1971. He was on the WA board for a number of years as well. In fact, there's a back story to that project. The house he helped build was on the mission center, in Brazil, where my wife & I were eventually assigned, 15 years later. The support worker became our radio tech, and eventually the computer tech as well. But my FIL also began supporting that family, and 4 years later this man went with a WBT translator on a search team to find an isolated the tribe - the same tribe to which we were assigned all those years later. Anyway, a WA team came down and helped us build a new meeting room and translation center in the late 80s and some of us "just translators" took off our normal work to help with the construction. I enjoyed this, not only because my FIL was again involved, but also just to be back in construction work for a time. (Wheeled a LOT of concrete on that job....) Later a WA project "team" (actually just a WA member & his family) came to our village to build a small school house to make a place for my wife to teach our children where they wouldn't loose their study table to an Indian if they just got up to use the bathroom.

Some out you have probably been to "Wycliffe Banquets" - fund raisers where translation needs were presented, and you could become familiar with the process and sort of witness the blessings of anther people group having Scripture in their own language. Some years ago, however, WA decided that they didn't want to support WBT's translations programs anymore, thinking that they could do it better, and faster. (Well, at least faster.) They scuttled the entire exegetical study process, and the consultant checking process, and just hand the projects over to anyone in the language target group who is willing to take a few weeks or months to do it. This all happened after we had left the field, but we continued to support and "push" the WA banquets in our area (Holmes County). It was only years later when we realized that they were no longer supporting WBT, and were using a methodology that we, as trained linguists and Bible translators, knew to be faulty. So while most of our own giving towards missionary work goes through WBT, we no longer support WA. EVEN THOUGH there are other people groups who need the Scripture, perhaps some who do not have actual Bible translators working in their languages. (While WBT is the largest, there are a number of other Bible translation organizations, including All-Nations Bible Translators. Even MCC has been directly involved in some Bible translation projects.) (I mention All-Nations here partly because it is a conservative anabaptist organization, and partly also because one of their team families is working in a situation where a very poor translation was made years ago - one which may have done more damage than it has helped, as it created a false "Christianity" based on misunderstandings derived from mistranslations.)

[KrisKramer]

CAM made a terrible mistake in the Jeriah Mast situation, but the larger picture is that they are still providing a need for the poor and needy around the world.

Grace, I see your point, really I do. Unfortunately, time has proven to me that the only way to a Mennonite's heart is through their wallet. Until the funding dries up, nothing will change. This sounds harsh, but I quite sure its realistic.

I understand where you are coming from. But when hurting their wallet, people are severely hurting the poor, impoverished people CAM provides relief for. The two cannot be separated, one comes with the other. You may respectfully disagree with me, but I do not think we well-fed, rich Americans have the right to say to the people who CAM provides relief for, that they should have that help dried up because we want to hurt CAM's wallets.

So you would rather give money to people who send pedos in the field so that more children can be abused?