The Collapse of America

[Ken]

“35% OF ILLINOIS’ SMALL BUSINESSES ARE CLOSED A YEAR INTO COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS”
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/35-of-il ... trictions/

More small businesses have closed in Illinois than in any other Midwestern state, except Michigan.
Taxing them more as they struggle is the wrong move.

It’s been one year since state-mandated COVID-19 mitigation protocols took effect across the state.
Now, a year later, many of Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s mandates remain in place, nearly 500,000 Illinoisans are out of work,
Illinois posts the highest unemployment rate in the Midwest and more than 35% of small businesses are closed.

The toll that COVID-19 and state-mandated lockdowns have taken on the economy have been severe, and perhaps no one has felt this pain more than small businesses.

Today, 35% of small businesses are closed compared to before the pandemic, more than any other Midwestern state except Michigan. Illinois’ massive decline in the number of small businesses is eighth worst in the nation. ..

The text continues .. there is a map of the 50 states.

Even by 2020, Illinois had not recovered from the 2008 bank failures.
Things are not “looking good,” not vibrant, to anyone driving around.

This evening i was chatting with my Seattle area family, they were stopping in for cupcakes at a local shop - they’d stopped last week. CLOSED+SHUTTERED. No notice.

i empathized and said i’ve experienced YEARS of this locally. established businesses+shops i never expected to outlive.

Regarding families, morale is down in young people. Increasing over years, not a recent phenomena.
Families are going from 1-2 children to 1 or none, often replaced with dogs+cats.

RZehr:
.. this nation is writing its own obituary.

Yes, Covid is bad. There are 195 other countries in the world. All of them dealing with Covid in various different ways. Which do you think are doing a better job then? And why?

[Bootstrap]

If America collapses, it will collapse because Americans can no longer agree that they want to be one society, together, including everyone who lives here, with a government that represents all of us. That is the danger of partisan "us versus them" polarization.

America did not collapse during the Great Depression. It did collapse during the Civil War. Adversity does not kill a country if it unites to overcome it. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

[Grace]

If America collapses, it will collapse because Americans can no longer agree that they want to be one society, together, including everyone who lives here, with a government that represents all of us. That is the danger of partisan "us versus them" polarization.

America did not collapse during the Great Depression. It did collapse during the Civil War. Adversity does not kill a country if it unites to overcome it. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

I agree to an extent. And when the government DOES NOT represent all of us, America will collapse.

[temporal1]

If America collapses, it will collapse because Americans can no longer agree that they want to be one society, together, including everyone who lives here, with a government that represents all of us. That is the danger of partisan "us versus them" polarization.

America did not collapse during the Great Depression. It did collapse during the Civil War. Adversity does not kill a country if it unites to overcome it. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

I agree to an extent. And when the government DOES NOT represent all of us, America will collapse.

i replied to Ken above in Bunny Trails. i would appreciate your thoughts, if interested.
Page 67 / viewtopic.php?f=9&t=209&start=660

This part:

.. You seem to suggest here that a country only “collapses” or fails, IF OTHER COUNTRIES ARE DOING WORSE.

That seems a skewed premise (to me).
i do not see failure as a “pecking order” situation. nor do i see pecking orders as pertinent to the topic.

As i’ve read, and continue to read histories of failed countries, i don’t notice emphasis/comparison with other countries of the day. Ancient Rome. Ancient Egypt. The Mayans, etc. They failed being what they once were, were replaced with something different, or altogether lost.

Sometimes societies decay, sometimes they are violently overthrown, etc. Sometimes invaders just walk in and dominate. Sometimes natural disasters are involved. But, countries don’t escape failure because “others are doing worse.”

When thinking of our sins, are we to look at others and determine, “o. look. his sins are worse, so i’m ok.”
i don’t believe it.

If i had such questions, i would refer to Honduras Keiser. i recommend this. ..

[Robert]

I see the moral and spiritual collapse. The other ways will follow since much of what the US culture was established on was s strong moral and spiritual foundation.

Science has improved our quantity of life, but we are loosing the quality of life.

[temporal1]

I see the moral and spiritual collapse.

The other ways will follow since much of what the US culture was established on was s strong moral and spiritual foundation.

Science has improved our quantity of life, but we are (losing) the quality of life.

Well said.
It’s been increasing for decades, it may not survive the most recent big choice, THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS “philosophy.”

The U.S.A. may continue in name?
But, with present reveling in replacing names, language, et al., i have no doubt the name holds no special favor that would make it an exception.

Scriptures warn. History warns. However, scripture and history must be studied in order to warn.
Who has time for “that??”
The preference is to ignore reality and pridefully bully through.

[Grace]

i replied to Ken above in Bunny Trails. i would appreciate your thoughts, if interested.
Page 67 / viewtopic.php?f=9&t=209&start=660

I agree with your response on skewed Ken's view.

Many times the collapse of a nation happens gradually and not with a sudden bang. One of the factors of a collapse is when a nation is controlled by powerful ruling elites whose main objective is to extract as much wealth as they can from the working society and redistribute that wealth, it destroys incentives and saps hard working citizens by creating an uneven playing field. Eventually you have more people in the wagon, than those pulling it.

Another factor is when a nation is run by one elite party who has all the power, nullifying checks and balances. Add to that when the main media sources abdicate their role as unbiased reporters of the news, to become propaganda arms of one party.

When the ruling elites are exempt from being accountable from the laws and their corruption.

Then there is the whole aspect of societies becoming degenerate.

Saw this somewhere.

First we overlook evil
Then we permit evil
Then we legalize evil
Next we celebrate evil
Last we persecute those who still call it evil.


Contributing to the collapse of a nation.

[Ken]

Sigh. I see a bunch on irrelevant data. And an offer to bunny trail.

it’s sad to see topics begin in good faith deliberately derailed, apparently as a hobby.

It's not a derailment to disagree with the basic premise of RZehr's post, that America in the midst of collapse. We are in the midst of a Covid-driven recession, that much is obvious. As is most of the rest of the world except for those few countries that managed to curtail the virus early on like New Zealand. But I disagree with the notion that we are in the midst of collapse, either economically or morally. I think we are stronger than that.

We are in the midst of rapid economic and social change. But America has always been a society of rapid change going back to the founding. The industrial revolution, westward expansion, the Civil War, the World Wars. We have always been a nation of tremendous and rapid social, geographic, and demographic change and we have always pulled through.

I don't mean to pick on RZehr specifically. But I find a lot of the current doom and gloom to be misguided. I work with young people every day and I honestly find them to be more mature, motivated, ethical, and harder working than the cohort of knuckleheads and slackers that I went through high school with four decades ago.

Look around you. See what you can do to make your own small corner of the world a better place. That's all we can really do. The rest is outside our control.

[Bootstrap]

If America collapses, it will collapse because Americans can no longer agree that they want to be one society, together, including everyone who lives here, with a government that represents all of us. That is the danger of partisan "us versus them" polarization.

America did not collapse during the Great Depression. It did collapse during the Civil War. Adversity does not kill a country if it unites to overcome it. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

I agree to an extent. And when the government DOES NOT represent all of us, America will collapse.

I'm not sure that's true. At one point, a significant percentage of Americans were slaves, but America did not collapse because of that. For a very long time, blacks were not slaves, but they did not have very basic rights, e.g. the right to eat at restaurants, stay at hotels, vote in elections without fear, but America did not collapse because of that either.

Right now, I think we have some polarized minorities who feel like burning it all down if they don't get their way. That can't be good.

[Bootstrap]

Many times the collapse of a nation happens gradually and not with a sudden bang. One of the factors of a collapse is when a nation is controlled by powerful ruling elites whose main objective is to extract as much wealth as they can from the working society and redistribute that wealth, it destroys incentives and saps hard working citizens by creating an uneven playing field. Eventually you have more people in the wagon, than those pulling it.

Which collapsed nations are you thinking of there?

I think there are many nations where the working class is severely oppressed, a few wealthy people own most of everything, but the nation does not collapse. There is a lot of discontent and frustration, but it does not lead to the collapse of the nation. Division and anger and hostility and fear and outrage are important factors for the collapse of nations.

Normally, the wealthy do not take money from the working class and redistribute it to the poor, why would they do that? The wealthy have most of the money in nations like this. In modern America, the top 10% of Americans own 77% of the wealth. If the top 10% of Americans want to redistribute wealth to those less fortunate, it's going to be their wealth, not the wealth of "working society". Or it will just be printing money so our grandchildren can inherit our debt while the rich continue to own more and more of American wealth.

Another factor is when a nation is run by one elite party who has all the power, nullifying checks and balances. Add to that when the main media sources abdicate their role as unbiased reporters of the news, to become propaganda arms of one party.

When the ruling elites are exempt from being accountable from the laws and their corruption.

To me, at least, it looks like both parties are playing absolute power games, building resentment. And that's scary. I think we are back to having a lot MORE checks and balances on presidential power than we had a year ago, though. I agree with you that the rich and powerful need to be subject to the laws, that corruption needs to be investigated. When corruption is found, we should let that happen and not be outraged if "our side" is found to be corrupt. Rooting out corruption should be "our side".

I don't think right-wing media should be considered "the main media sources". But I agree that they are doing a lot to undermine the legitimacy of American government in the eyes of a lot of people.