Lisa Miller case

[Ken]

The value of remorse, personally and in courts, is not in question.

What is in question here is whether LM has anything to be remorseful about.
If courts respect individual rights to closely held religious beliefs, remorse is not a factor.

In this case, JJ’s distant legal connection, “next friend,” to Isabella should be in question.
Media reporting inaccurate labels on this connection, over years, should be questioned.

Whether remorse should be a factor in sentencing for ANY criminal trial is actually open to debate. A lot of people argue that it should not be.

That said, it is one of the factors that is currently considered in both state and federal courts. And is actually written into sentencing and parole guidelines in many jurisdictions. We shall see how it all plays out I guess. The court already rejected the religious liberty argument when they chose to arraign her and take her into custody.

[temporal1]

Arraignment is not final judgment.

The biggest question (for me) is how LM will proceed as a CM. She has submitted to courts.
If she were Catholic or Baptist, in the event rulings are unfavorable, appeals would be expected.

altho i’m not CM, i do not pursue legal recourse.
i’m glad Catholic Nick Sandmann did, his case benefits all.

political blocs+lobbies LIVE for litigation.

This paints a significantly unbalanced picture from a secular pov.

As in the Sandmann case, the outcome will affect future court decisions.
It’s understandable why so many are invested in heartfelt PRAYER for Lisa and Isabella. david+goliath.

- - - - - -

your view appears to be this is an open+shut international kidnapping case.
i do not subscribe to that.
“next friend” is not parent, either bio or adopted.

the case should be thrown out.

[Ken]

Arraignment is not final judgment.

The biggest question (for me) is how LM will proceed as a CM. She has submitted to courts.
If she were Catholic or Baptist, in the event rulings are unfavorable, appeals would be expected.

altho i’m not CM, i do not pursue legal recourse.
i’m glad Catholic Nick Sandmann did, his case benefits all.

political blocs+lobbies LIVE for litigation.

This paints a significantly unbalanced picture from a secular pov.

As in the Sandmann case, the outcome will affect future court decisions.
It’s understandable why so many are invested in heartfelt PRAYER for Lisa and Isabella. david+goliath.

- - - - - -

your view appears to be this is an open+shut international kidnapping case.
i do not subscribe to that.
“next friend” is not parent, either bio or adopted.

the case should be thrown out.

I don't actually have a view on this case. I'm just commenting that I expect the legal system is going to put her into a bind where the steps she may need to take in order to petition for leniency from the court may require things like expressions of remorse and contrition and willingness to "make amends" which may conflict with her religious beliefs. Her lawyers are likely to pull her on one direction, and her faith in another.

I'm nor sure why you keep bringing up the Sandmann case. That was a civil settlement for libel in which the terms are confidential. It has no relevance to this Federal criminal case.

[temporal1]

arraign verb
ar·​raign | \ ə-ˈrān \
arraigned; arraigning; arraigns

Definition of arraign
transitive verb
1 : to call (a defendant) before a court to answer to an indictment : CHARGE
2 : to accuse of wrong, inadequacy, or imperfection

i believe it’s premature to think of sentencing, leniency, etc., at this stage.

my interest in the Sandmann case is how it shines a bright light on MEDIA BIAS and how critically wrong it is.
how the public is FOOLISH to allow biased unworthy media to lead them around by the nose.
educators should be “all about” warning against dreadful media bias. (time was this was the case.)

Ken,
you seem to be backpedaling now (you’re good at it) but, prior, in this thread and others, you have spoken in black+white terms about what LM “needs to do,” and what she’s done. altho you may be one of those least informed on this forum. (i’m not claiming to be well informed.) i have been reading about this case since .. 2012-ish.

However, only recently have i read the legal label assigned to JJ: “Next friend.”
Bio, legal parents have privileges.
Even bio GRANDPARENTS do not have inherent parental privileges without legal steps to acquire them.

We may presume “next friend” is the best+strongest legal label money could buy JJ.

Why didn’t JJ secure her legal relationship with Isabella, early, when she could?
1. Too cheap to pay legal fees?
2. Intentional distance to avoid child support payment obligations, in case “things went south” with LM?
3. Other?

In divorce, many HATE paying child support.
Some are so passionate they even kill their children/former spouses in refusal.

[temporal1]

From a Christian and moral perspective, if i knew JJ, i would have encouraged her to accept LM as Isabella’s mother, in the U.S., or Nicaragua, encouraged her to offer financial and emotional support, for benefit of the child. To reject any legal recourse. i would empathize with the difficulty.

LM is the only known bio parent. No adoptive parent exists. Her competence has not been questioned.

Loving a child, means putting self aside, doing what’s best for the child. Even if it hurts. Even if it hurts for life.

[Josh]

Ken,

Here is how our legal system actually works:

https://apnews.com/article/oklahoma-man ... 2e5804926b

CHICKASHA, Okla. (AP) — An Oklahoma man who had been released early from prison in January as part of a mass commutation effort is now accused of three killings, including the death of a neighbor whose heart he cut out, authorities said.

A judge denied bail Tuesday for Lawrence Paul Anderson, who faces three counts of first-degree murder, one count of assault and one count of maiming for the attack this month in Chickasha, about 35 miles (55 kilometers) southwest of Oklahoma City.

According to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, Anderson is accused of killing Andrea Lynn Blankenship, 41, and cutting out her heart. Authorities say Anderson brought the heart to his aunt and uncle’s house, cooked it with potatoes and tried to serve it to them before killing Leon Pye, 67, wounding the aunt and killing Kaeos Yates, the pair’s 4-year-old granddaughter.

Why was he released early?

Anderson had been sentenced in 2017 to 20 years in prison for probation violations on a drug case, the newspaper reported. Republican Gov. Kevin Stitt commuted the sentence last year to nine years in prison, and Anderson was released after serving a little more than three years.

I see no reason Lisa Miller should not be treated any more leniently than this person.

And I also don’t think a mother should be told to show remorse for protecting her child from an abuser. People who side with abusers are evil. I will never side with a child abuser, and I would be glad to go to prison for the rest of my life to protect a child from an abuser. I hope the rest of you would do the same.

[temporal1]

“Justice.”
Small town/village, not far from me:

2009 / “Mother's warnings ignored”
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html

Amy Leichtenberg clings to the memory of that final morning with her sons -- when the two boys were hers, healthy and alive.

She replays it in her mind, looking for things she could have done differently or words she could have used to convince authorities that the boys were in danger.

She watches herself call the LeRoy Police Department about 9 a.m. March 7 to tell the on-duty officer that she won't allow her sons to spend a court-ordered weekend with their father because of his increasingly erratic behavior. She hears the officer threaten to arrest her, and she winces as she caves to his authority.

Leichtenberg hurriedly packs two backpacks for the boys, kisses them goodbye, tells them that their mama loves them to the heavens and back. She sees them climb into a car with her ex-husband, an unemployed pharmaceutical salesman who has vowed to cut her open, frequently threatens to kill himself and allegedly violated her orders of protection 56 times.


She shudders in hindsight, knowing her sons were walking toward their deaths. .. ..

2013 / “LeRoy settles with woman whose sons died at hands of father” ($10 million)
https://herald-review.com/news/local/le ... f887a.html

[mike]

According to Pablo Yoder, Lisa is being held in a jail in New York. If anyone would like to write to her, let me know and I will message you the information.

[Ken]

Ken,

Here is how our legal system actually works:

https://apnews.com/article/oklahoma-man ... 2e5804926b

CHICKASHA, Okla. (AP) — An Oklahoma man who had been released early from prison in January as part of a mass commutation effort is now accused of three killings, including the death of a neighbor whose heart he cut out, authorities said.

A judge denied bail Tuesday for Lawrence Paul Anderson, who faces three counts of first-degree murder, one count of assault and one count of maiming for the attack this month in Chickasha, about 35 miles (55 kilometers) southwest of Oklahoma City.

According to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, Anderson is accused of killing Andrea Lynn Blankenship, 41, and cutting out her heart. Authorities say Anderson brought the heart to his aunt and uncle’s house, cooked it with potatoes and tried to serve it to them before killing Leon Pye, 67, wounding the aunt and killing Kaeos Yates, the pair’s 4-year-old granddaughter.

Why was he released early?

Anderson had been sentenced in 2017 to 20 years in prison for probation violations on a drug case, the newspaper reported. Republican Gov. Kevin Stitt commuted the sentence last year to nine years in prison, and Anderson was released after serving a little more than three years.

I see no reason Lisa Miller should not be treated any more leniently than this person.

And I also don’t think a mother should be told to show remorse for protecting her child from an abuser. People who side with abusers are evil. I will never side with a child abuser, and I would be glad to go to prison for the rest of my life to protect a child from an abuser. I hope the rest of you would do the same.

It's not what you think or what I think that will govern this case. If this case goes to sentencing (as opposed to a plea bargain or settlement of some sort) then it will be up to the judge. They do have discretion. But they also have guidelines for sentencing. If you don't believe me, feel free to look them up yourself. This trial will be in a Federal district court. Here are the sentencing guidelines (and mitigating factors) that are in effect:

https://guidelines.ussc.gov/gl/%C2%A73E1.1

[Josh]

It's not what you think or what I think that will govern this case. If this case goes to sentencing (as opposed to a plea bargain or settlement of some sort) then it will be up to the judge. They do have discretion. But they also have guidelines for sentencing. If you don't believe me, feel free to look them up yourself. This trial will be in a Federal district court. Here are the sentencing guidelines (and mitigating factors) that are in effect:

https://guidelines.ussc.gov/gl/%C2%A73E1.1

And in Soviet Russia, sharing the gospel would get you sent to the gulag; in Nazi Germany, helping hide Jews would get you sent to a concentration camp. What's your point?

And do you have some remark about "sentencing guidelines" that result in a guy getting out in 3 years from a 9 year conviction that was originally 20 years who then literally kills and eats his neighbour?