Biblical Anabaptist wrote:
Probably other. The leadership was willing to trample anyone under foot in order to retain their power and control. It was probably somewhat patriarchal, but I don't think that is what drove the abuse.
Biblical Anabaptist wrote: . . .It was in this setting I was told "it is OK to make your wife cry"
Would you categorize that mentality as patriarchal, misogynistic, both, or other?
“None of the above.” There is no need to use leftist-progressive labels. The Bible has plenty of other words for sin, but you won’t find “patriarchal” or “misogynistic” in there.
By the way, is "abuse" a Biblical concept? What would be the Greek or Hebraic equivalent?
"Abuse" seems to be a comprehensive term for: "I am not used properly, or else according to my wishes."
(I admit that I look at all conflicts as clashes between wishes.)
Does abuse of power in a spiritual setting cause those following to take liberty to commit other kinds of abuses, such as sexual or physical abuse?
Do settings where leaders are servants and demonstrate a restraint of power, and actively use the power they have to protect those weaker individuals, send a message to others that abuse of weaker individuals is not welcome here?
Do conservative Anabaptist groups think there is a sexual abuse problem when there could be a more foundational and institutionalized problem with abuse of power among spiritual leaders?
flyingnorm wrote:
Do conservative Anabaptist groups think there is a sexual abuse problem when there could be a more foundational and institutionalized problem with abuse of power among spiritual leaders?
I do believe in a connection there. The entire "we're above the law" attitude for starters.
I've touched on this before, but the "bishop for life" leadership structure needs to go. There is no accountability in that type of culture.
flyingnorm wrote:
Do conservative Anabaptist groups think there is a sexual abuse problem when there could be a more foundational and institutionalized problem with abuse of power among spiritual leaders?
I do believe in a connection there. The entire "we're above the law" attitude for starters.
I've touched on this before, but the "bishop for life" leadership structure needs to go. There is no accountability in that type of culture.
I'll be quiet now.
I also think there are some problems with elders, deacons, or bishops having lifetime appointments. There may be some upsides such as stability. And there might be some issues with having routine votes of confidence in leadership. However having something like a 5-year term takes away some of the aspects of dynasty, power, and gravitas from a church office, and highlights the office for what it should be: a period of service to the congregation.
I'm not saying there should be term limits... but our church votes every four years on a the position of lead pastor. In the entire history of our church, I don't think we've ever voted someone out, but the option is there if things go sideways. They've all served until retirement.
steve-in-kville wrote:I'm not saying there should be term limits... but our church votes every four years on a the position of lead pastor. In the entire history of our church, I don't think we've ever voted someone out, but the option is there if things go sideways. They've all served until retirement.
Interesting. I've figured that if there were terms, a lot leaders would probably be reelected.
The basic problem seems to me asymmetrical positions.
(Strictly personally, that's why I have not much interest in sermon-centered services. A sermon is the bottom line of asymmetry.)
On the other hand, asymmetrical structures have developed quite logically from the fact that church was (and is?) a missionary community. A message is always given from an A who already knows it to a B who doesn't know it. That's the rationale for clerical hierarchy and all kinds of asymmetrical structures.
Another point: In a lot of cases abuse is not objecticely definable by behaviour because it is related to a comparative difference of strengh. A push or punch which may be quite normal with a friend of equal strength might be abusive with a little child or someone else who is much weaker. And it is similar with verbal "pushes" and "punches". (And then there are the people who only play weak in order to feel offended by your verbal pushes.)
I am still uncertain if "abuse" is a useful concept and would like to know the Biblical correlating terms.
steve-in-kville wrote:I'm not saying there should be term limits... but our church votes every four years on a the position of lead pastor. In the entire history of our church, I don't think we've ever voted someone out, but the option is there if things go sideways. They've all served until retirement.
Interesting. I've figured that if there were terms, a lot leaders would probably be reelected.
There are terms/term limits. In politics:
POTUS is strictly limited to 2 terms, 4-8 years.
Congress has terms - that can and, oddly, do go on for decades.
The USSC seats are lifetime appointments.
