Joy wrote:Does the Bible teach Jesus' followers to be violent?
Do the holy books of Islam teach its followers to be violent?
I know Christians who believe that true Christians must not be violent. I know Muslims who believe that true Muslims must not be violent.
I know Christians who believe that the Bible teaches us to prepare for war against the powers of this world, it's worth paying attention to some of the false, radicalized teachings that are circulating in Christian circles and the role they played in the insurrection in Washingon. I don't think that's terribly different from the kinds of radicalization we see among Muslims. Christians who teach these things generally appeal to apocalyptic literature and violent parts of the Old Testament. Muslims who teach these things appeal to the Koran.
I know the Bible, I don't know the Koran. I can't answer any question about how the Koran should properly be interpreted. The only Muslims I know are refugees who believe the radical Muslims are misinterpreting the Koran, I cannot say whether or not they are right. But I think we have to keep reminding Christians how the Bible should properly be interpreted through the lens of what Jesus said and taught.
1. I suppose that there is indeed a certain violent strain in Abrahamitic religions. Firstly the OT variant: the idea that "we" are entitled to certain worldly possessions by the will of God. Secondly the Zoroastrian influence during the Exile period: the idea that there comes a final battle between the good and the bad, now at last sorted out in two different parties, with a final victory. I also suppose that the modern mundane ideologies, like fascism or communism, are insofar informed by the Abrahamitic tradition. Insofar they have no justification to denounce Christian violence.
2. If we opt out of that, it should be with as little censoriousness and judgmentalness as possible. I am not convinced that the "proper" interpretation of the Bible is at my side. It's more like: "Sorry, my dear, but see you, it is practically impossible for me to follow your way and take my way at the same time, so we have to part here - no bad feelings included."
3. The best way to wriggle oneself out of the violent way is not distancing oneself from the negative, but concentrating on a positive alternative. For me, this includes above all an intelligent interest in the well-being of the humans within the fighting parties. For instance, w.r.t radical islamists we ought to have said loud and clear that for their well-being they need a space where they can live according to their own ideas - a space which is not too small and not to big but just matches their number. Unfortunately nobody said this at the right time, 2019 when the Islamic State had been crushed (but as I myself failed to raise my small voice, whom can I accuse?)
Boot, some years ago, I read a quote out of one of the Islamic holy books--not the Koran--that definitely taught violence against non-Muslims. So the non-conservatives are simply being better followers than the peaceful Muslims.
Joy wrote:Boot, some years ago, I read a quote out of one of the Islamic holy books--not the Koran--that definitely taught violence against non-Muslims. So the non-conservatives are simply being better followers than the peaceful Muslims.
Joy, I have never read even one Islamic holy book completely, I got lost after the Parable of the Cow. I am in no position to say who is a better follower of the Koran. I have no idea what holy book you are talking about or whether all Muslims consider it a holy book. I simply don't know much about these things. I know this: I prefer peaceful Muslims to violent ones.
I also prefer peaceful Christians to violent ones. And I think there are branches of violent extremism that claim to be Christian, are steeped in apocalyptic end-times memes, and seem just as radicalized as Muslim extremists to me. We saw some of them on video January 6th.
I think there are both Christian and Muslim variants of these themes.
Our group is under attack.
The enemy is responsible for this injustice.
We must defend our traditions.
The use of violence is the only way to defend our beliefs.
Our violent actions will result in a better future.
Western nations are corrupt and must be destroyed.
Our people are being oppressed. No one is doing anything. We must fight back.
Our race and traditions are superior. To save our people from ruin we must eliminate all of those who disagree.
You can’t trust government or law enforcement. Arm yourself and be ready to fight.
The environment is under attack. We must stop this abuse through economic sabotage and guerilla warfare.