Bunny Trails

[RZehr]

Are you all opted out of social security and Medicare? That will make a big difference in what will and will not work. We are not.

J.M.

No we aren’t all. Maybe half are exempt. But every family save one retired couple, is part of this plan.

Our conference is not exempt, we cannot opt out, and as best as I understand could not become so, even if it wanted to. I am retired, and my health insurance is far less expensive than what you are quoting. We are urban, and most of us work for employers that provide this as a result of employment.

J.M.

Why is yours far less expensive? Is is subsidized by employer? Or is it governmental, because you are a certain age? To restate ours in more detail, we individually pay $105 per adult, then the church lifts an offering once a month. The $145 was a hip shot from me. I know the $105 was intended to cover about 80% of the cost, and the once a month offerings are supposed to cover the other 20% of the cost.

[Josh]

As best as I know we are NOT opted out, as we have no mechanism to provide those benefits that we would need to provide. I know what register you are talking about, even one of our bishops was surprised we were on that list. You likely got that list from me. BTW the Lancaster conference is also on that list, and when those rules were created, we were part of the Lancaster conference. Just being on that list does not mean you can opt out, you as a group, have to provide and have a history of providing care for people that are opted out. But no, we, as a group, are not eligible to opt out of social security. I asked. We promise to follow those rules in our covenant.

You sure get a kick out of throwing stones at conferences that have differing rules. Care to discuss some of the Holdeman rules that other groups would differ with?

J.M.

Okay, well, I've known people in your conference who are indeed exempt and continue to be so. The last time I saw that list, no, I did not get it from you; it came from an FOIA request filed with the SSA in order to find out which denominations would also be exempt from Affordable Care Act mandates.

In any case, my own conference isn't exempt - yet we pay for and run our own mutual aid plans, so it's clearly possible. Many different types of Mennonites in Canada do the exact same thing, opting out of the national single payer scheme and instead paying for their health care needs brother-to-brother instead.

Just being on that list does not mean you can opt out, you as a group, have to provide and have a history of providing care for people that are opted out.

Any sincere group of Anabaptists should be able to demonstrate a history of providing care for their aged.

[Josh]

Our conference is not exempt, we cannot opt out, and as best as I understand could not become so, even if it wanted to. I am retired, and my health insurance is far less expensive than what you are quoting. We are urban, and most of us work for employers that provide this as a result of employment.

J.M.

What? Your health insurance is less than $145/mo?

Most employers allow people to opt out of health insurance. The health plans at my health employer run around $900+/mo to cover one person. The employee share of that is around $135/mo.

Most Anabaptists are smaller businesses and don't provide health benefits for employees; instead, everyone uses the same mutual aid plan. It doesn't make sense for some people to have better health benefits and others to have worse depending on how big or wealthy their employer is.

[temporal1]

Josh: ^^
.. It doesn't make sense for some people to have better health benefits and others to have worse depending on how big or wealthy their employer is.

Bunny trailing bunny trails ..
well, in fact, throughout human history, no matter gov system, health care has never been “equal.”
the better employed, the wealthier, the privileged have always enjoyed better benefits. no matter system.

i’m not an expert on any if this, but, from what i gather, even in often-idealized Canada, those with means who prefer better and/or faster healthcare, simply buy it and go where it can be found. U.S. Congressmen would “die” at the thought their healthcare standards would be lowered to that of the masses.

when i was young, many had no healthcare - and costs were typically not so extreme they could not be met. my parents (and most others) paid for 6 hospital births out of pocket, my mother did not work outside the home, my father provided, but frugally.

when i graduated h.s., i went to work in an office. my parents were amazed i could choose full coverage Blue Cross Blue Shield, no deductibles, no copays (not yet invented, i guess) - my employee cost was $.50/paycheck, twice monthly.

at $.90/hr gross, the decision was a big one for me. $1/mo. hmm. hmm. ???
i’d never been in the hospital.

today’s numbers were beyond imagination. all of them.

i’m not sure where/why today’s talk about everyone should receive equally comes from.
not so in history. not so in scriptures.

i’d like to warn. for the folks determined to equalize everything.
if they believe for one second this will eliminate the privileged+elite, i believe they are sorely mistaken. it MIGHT TRANSFER wealth and power from one elite+privileged group to another. it might. but the transfer does not promise the new group will be any more palatable. and perhaps much worse. they won’t even thank (proponents) for the favor.

in all of history, including in scriptures, there has been the “1%” “.01%” or whatever % is chosen.
Jesus didn’t waste His time trying to change it. He offered the alternative.

Josh. i know you understand Jesus’ call.

i’m referring to what is often suggested in the world, and in academia, that NUMBERS of people determine power. this is NOT what history reflects. quite the opposite. it only “looks good on paper,” and on charts+graphs to suggest numbers control. it’s not how real life has ever worked.

i don’t believe today’s brainiacs are going to outsmart any sort of history.

[Judas Maccabeus]

No we aren’t all. Maybe half are exempt. But every family save one retired couple, is part of this plan.

Our conference is not exempt, we cannot opt out, and as best as I understand could not become so, even if it wanted to. I am retired, and my health insurance is far less expensive than what you are quoting. We are urban, and most of us work for employers that provide this as a result of employment.

J.M.

Why is yours far less expensive? Is is subsidized by employer? Or is it governmental, because you are a certain age? To restate ours in more detail, we individually pay $105 per adult, then the church lifts an offering once a month. The $145 was a hip shot from me. I know the $105 was intended to cover about 80% of the cost, and the once a month offerings are supposed to cover the other 20% of the cost.

Very heavily subsidized. My wife is as well. Long tenure with employers who offer this benefit for retirement. For both of us, it was 20+ years.

Ask me, would YOU turn down this benefit you have earned?

JM.

[Judas Maccabeus]

As best as I know we are NOT opted out, as we have no mechanism to provide those benefits that we would need to provide. I know what register you are talking about, even one of our bishops was surprised we were on that list. You likely got that list from me. BTW the Lancaster conference is also on that list, and when those rules were created, we were part of the Lancaster conference. Just being on that list does not mean you can opt out, you as a group, have to provide and have a history of providing care for people that are opted out. But no, we, as a group, are not eligible to opt out of social security. I asked. We promise to follow those rules in our covenant.

You sure get a kick out of throwing stones at conferences that have differing rules. Care to discuss some of the Holdeman rules that other groups would differ with?

J.M.

Okay, well, I've known people in your conference who are indeed exempt and continue to be so. The last time I saw that list, no, I did not get it from you; it came from an FOIA request filed with the SSA in order to find out which denominations would also be exempt from Affordable Care Act mandates.

In any case, my own conference isn't exempt - yet we pay for and run our own mutual aid plans, so it's clearly possible. Many different types of Mennonites in Canada do the exact same thing, opting out of the national single payer scheme and instead paying for their health care needs brother-to-brother instead.

Just being on that list does not mean you can opt out, you as a group, have to provide and have a history of providing care for people that are opted out.

Any sincere group of Anabaptists should be able to demonstrate a history of providing care for their aged.

Just talked to my pastor. Our conference is not exempt.

JM.

[Josh]

Very heavily subsidized. My wife is as well. Long tenure with employers who offer this benefit for retirement. For both of us, it was 20+ years.

Ask me, would YOU turn down this benefit you have earned?

JM.

I turn it down every payroll.

[Josh]

Just being on that list does not mean you can opt out, you as a group, have to provide and have a history of providing care for people that are opted out.

Any sincere group of Anabaptists should be able to demonstrate a history of providing care for their aged.

Just talked to my pastor. Our conference is not exempt.

JM.

Neither is mine, but I still believe that both your conference and mine should be capable of demonstrating that we have a "history of providing care for [our aged]".

[Judas Maccabeus]

Any sincere group of Anabaptists should be able to demonstrate a history of providing care for their aged.

Just talked to my pastor. Our conference is not exempt.

JM.

Neither is mine, but I still believe that both your conference and mine should be capable of demonstrating that we have a "history of providing care for [our aged]".

The second part would be having an objection to receiving such benefits as a matter of religious principle. We have no such objection.

[RZehr]

Our conference is not exempt, we cannot opt out, and as best as I understand could not become so, even if it wanted to. I am retired, and my health insurance is far less expensive than what you are quoting. We are urban, and most of us work for employers that provide this as a result of employment.

J.M.

Why is yours far less expensive? Is is subsidized by employer? Or is it governmental, because you are a certain age? To restate ours in more detail, we individually pay $105 per adult, then the church lifts an offering once a month. The $145 was a hip shot from me. I know the $105 was intended to cover about 80% of the cost, and the once a month offerings are supposed to cover the other 20% of the cost.

Very heavily subsidized. My wife is as well. Long tenure with employers who offer this benefit for retirement. For both of us, it was 20+ years.

Ask me, would YOU turn down this benefit you have earned?

JM.

I have, yes. When Obamacare came into effect, the company I worked for was forced to switch to insurance instead of medical reimbursement. I lost $10,000 per year in medical reimbursement. And went without insurance.

Mostly I was curious why your monthly costs were lower than our sharing plan.