The Correlation Between Religion and Violence

[Sudsy]

One of the biggest obstacles that a good friend of mine held to for not becoming a Christ follower was the history of professing Christians who were either directly involved in violent wars or contributed on the sidelines to those who were directly involved. He saw Christianity as more a threat to world peace than a way toward world peace.

I think a similar hindrance to the Kingdom of God growing is the friction between the various groups that all profess to be Christian. So often the killing is not in physically taking a life but rather it is murder through words. Jesus said when we use a derogatory remark like 'empty headed, 'stupid' or some other word or phrase showing contempt for someone it is tantamount to murder. Violence begins in the heart.

As Kingdom ambassadors of the Kingdom of Peace it requires us to resist all thoughts of violence and to love one another through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit. Pure religion has no room for violence toward others.

[Soloist]

Right. Also important to point out that much of the violence that has happened is a direct result of Western colonialism and occupation in the Middle East.

And why did we have the Crusades? I think you need to take a deeper look at the expansion of Islam.

The European countries have been waging war with the Muslims/Turks for a very long time and this was started pre western colonialism and back with the Roman Empire falling.

Edit: little off on my timeline, my point was that the war with the Islamic empire was predating the real colonial expansion of the western empires.

[Ken]

Right. Also important to point out that much of the violence that has happened is a direct result of Western colonialism and occupation in the Middle East.

And why did we have the Crusades? I think you need to take a deeper look at the expansion of Islam.

The European countries have been waging war with the Muslims/Turks for a very long time and this was started pre western colonialism and back with the Roman Empire falling.

Edit: little off on my timeline, my point was that the war with the Islamic empire was predating the real colonial expansion of the western empires.

You don't consider the Crusades an early form of imperialism or colonialism?

[Soloist]

You don't consider the Crusades an early form of imperialism or colonialism?

The Rashidun Caliphate took over the Holy lands in mid to early 600 AD's and Sophronius surrendered to the Caliphate at that time of the invasion. Around 400 years later the Crusades begin.
Umayyad Caliphate continued the expansion of the Muslim Empire and it was under the eventual Abbasid Caliphate that they broke through to start raiding more of the "Roman" Empire resulting in pressure to do something about these Turks which were conquering the Byzantine Empire.
There is much more to this, this is a very brief point of the Muslim empire expansion.

[Bootstrap]

One of the biggest obstacles that a good friend of mine held to for not becoming a Christ follower was the history of professing Christians who were either directly involved in violent wars or contributed on the sidelines to those who were directly involved. He saw Christianity as more a threat to world peace than a way toward world peace.

I think a similar hindrance to the Kingdom of God growing is the friction between the various groups that all profess to be Christian. So often the killing is not in physically taking a life but rather it is murder through words. Jesus said when we use a derogatory remark like 'empty headed, 'stupid' or some other word or phrase showing contempt for someone it is tantamount to murder. Violence begins in the heart.

As Kingdom ambassadors of the Kingdom of Peace it requires us to resist all thoughts of violence and to love one another through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit. Pure religion has no room for violence toward others.

I agree.

Christians can be radicalized just as Muslims can be radicalized. Sometimes this involves actual violence, sometimes this involves the "burn it all down" mentality without reaching as far as physical violence, sometimes this involves contempt, bitterness, suspicion, and political faction building. And like Islamic radicalization, it often starts out mild and tends to draw people toward more extreme forms.

None of that looks like Jesus. All of that distracts from Jesus and Christian discipleship. All of that makes it harder for us to have a consistent witness to those who are actually looking for Jesus.

[barnhart]

For believers in the Remnant church, who do not look for a ruling position in society (Regnant church), both the West (regions populated with people who claim christian identity) and the Islamic world (regions populated with people claiming Islamic identity), are kingdoms of this world. It is not unusual or surprising they would struggle for ascendancy, influence and control.

[Bootstrap]

Maybe it is just human nature that gets reflected through whatever ideology is handy. Communism in the 20th Century. European religious wars in the 17th and 18th Centuries. Islamic wars in the 21st Century. And so forth.

Can anyone point to a region of the world or dominant culture that is no steeped in violence throughout its history? Maybe Canada, which at least did better than the US vis-a-vis slavery, native genocides, and general violence. But is still far from perfect.

Just about anything people really want can be a cause for violence. Communism, Christianity, money, even love - they have all motivated cruel violence.

Doesn't mean people shouldn't care about anything. But Christians are suffering servants in the image of Jesus, not holy warriors with fleshly weapons in our hands.

[Ken]

You don't consider the Crusades an early form of imperialism or colonialism?

The Rashidun Caliphate took over the Holy lands in mid to early 600 AD's and Sophronius surrendered to the Caliphate at that time of the invasion. Around 400 years later the Crusades begin.
Umayyad Caliphate continued the expansion of the Muslim Empire and it was under the eventual Abbasid Caliphate that they broke through to start raiding more of the "Roman" Empire resulting in pressure to do something about these Turks which were conquering the Byzantine Empire.
There is much more to this, this is a very brief point of the Muslim empire expansion.

Oh, I agree, the Crusades were a complex phenomenon in a complicated geopolitical situation.

The Byzantine Empire was seeking assistance from the west to combat Muslim and Turkish expansionism. But Jerusalem is also nearly 2,000 km from Constantinople. And the Crusaders from western Europe had their own objectives aside from any geopolitical struggle between the Byzantines and the Muslims. The attempts by Western European aristocrats to establish Crusader kingdoms in Jerusalem and along the Mediterranean on up into Lebanon and Syria was not really much different from later imperial or colonial expansion into Africa, Asia, and Latin America. They were just going against a much more powerful and equal foe than later European imperialists.

[Soloist]

Oh, I agree, the Crusades were a complex phenomenon in a complicated geopolitical situation.

The Byzantine Empire was seeking assistance from the west to combat Muslim and Turkish expansionism. But Jerusalem is also nearly 2,000 km from Constantinople. And the Crusaders from western Europe had their own objectives aside from any geopolitical struggle between the Byzantines and the Muslims. The attempts by Western European aristocrats to establish Crusader kingdoms in Jerusalem and along the Mediterranean on up into Lebanon and Syria was not really much different from later imperial or colonial expansion into Africa, Asia, and Latin America. They were just going against a much more powerful and equal foe than later European imperialists.

And that is why I started with the Rashidun Caliphate expansion to show the Byzantine was not taking over new territory as during the expansions you reference. Either way, this is off topic.

[Joy]

Does the Bible teach Jesus' followers to be violent?

Do the holy books of Islam teach its followers to be violent?