briar patch

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
temporal1

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by temporal1 »

ohio jones wrote:
temporal1 wrote:i have nothing to say about Christian America, or Christian Nationalism.
... she says in her fifth post in the thread on that subject. :P :lol:

What did you mean? :)
i mean .. :P .. i’m taking RZehr’s OP literally, when he wrote:
RZehr:
I don’t have much point in sharing this, except for general interest.

my interest is general - and even vague. which, in this thread, seemed to be the invitation. :)

i’m also having a hard time attempting to respect the 40 day sabbatical, which i think is a good idea, and for the best. i’m interested in how+what will unfold as a result. i hope good things.

i have removed nearly everything political/media from my life .. except what shows up on MN.
yes, i know i can opt-out. i’m not planning to. esp not for these 40 days. when it should not be necessary. right?

i do not appreciate how boot evidently wallows in the most disgusting items then splashes them here, for whatever purpose motivates him. boot: could you take a break?

from the bits+pieces i see, it appears “most disgusting” is ALL that’s now being aired.
featuring it here just feeds that kind of mentality. it will continue until people reject it.
i’m not holding my breath.

it might be a like a form of addictive pornography that people can indulge in without having to hide it and deny it. in fact, they can be proud and self-righteous about it.

i’m irritable. isn’t everybody? why wouldn’t they be? :-|
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justme

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by justme »

temporal1 wrote:i’m also having a hard time attempting to respect the 40 day sabbatical, which i think is a good idea, and for the best. i’m interested in how+what will unfold as a result. i hope good things.

i have removed nearly everything political/media from my life .. except what shows up on MN.
yes, i know i can opt-out. i’m not planning to. esp not for these 40 days. when it should not be necessary. right?

i do not appreciate how boot evidently wallows in the most disgusting items then splashes them here, for whatever purpose motivates him. boot: could you take a break?
why are you asking boot to take a break when you are not willing to work on it from your own end?
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Bootstrap

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:i do not appreciate how boot evidently wallows in the most disgusting items then splashes them here, for whatever purpose motivates him. boot: could you take a break?
Here's what the video shows: Christian nationalists praying during the insurrection. My point: this is not biblical Christianity, certainly not as Mennonites understand it.

Here's what motivates me: we need to return to a Christianity that looks like Jesus.
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temporal1

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by temporal1 »

justme wrote:
temporal1 wrote:i’m also having a hard time attempting to respect the 40 day sabbatical, which i think is a good idea, and for the best. i’m interested in how+what will unfold as a result. i hope good things.

i have removed nearly everything political/media from my life .. except what shows up on MN.
yes, i know i can opt-out. i’m not planning to. esp not for these 40 days. when it should not be necessary. right?

i do not appreciate how boot evidently wallows in the most disgusting items then splashes them here, for whatever purpose motivates him. boot: could you take a break?
why are you asking boot to take a break when you are not willing to work on it from your own end?
over years, you, as moderator, have consistently given me, in particular, the message i am not to question boot. this is a trigger for you, as much as his deliberately offensive links are to me.
everyone has their biases.

i’m not sure why the whole of the post you quoted would not answer your question.
i wrote:
i’m also having a hard time attempting to respect the 40 day sabbatical, which i think is a good idea, and for the best. i’m interested in how+what will unfold as a result. i hope good things.
beyond that, i apologize personally to you for being an irritant. sincerely not intended.
Robert:
Some seem to be having trouble not dragging in strong political tones in their discussions. We will start using the warning system. After 3 warnings, that person will be blocked from the forum for 3 days.

I know it may seem rather strict and hard, but many are really trying to respect the guidelines.

Others are pushing the boundaries, either intentionally or accidentally, but the result is the same.
It makes someone else respond in defense and press the same boundaries or not be able to voice their perspective out of respect of the new guidelines. That is unfair and we need to work harder and do better.
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 37#p113437
The reason i do not plan to opt-out of politics is because i find great value in “minority” voices found there, including appleman, mike, GaryK, Josh, Grace, ohio jones, and others. not just those known, but, on this public forum, there are often new voices that pop in from anywhere - like PetrC in Germany, and Swiss bro in Switzerland. opting-out means missing out.

However, to repeat, my understanding of the spirit of the sabbatical is opting-out should not be necessary - for any topic. i agree with it.
Robert:
God cleansed the world in 40 days, but suggesting we can do the same in 40 days is quite egotistical, isn't it?

After 40 years in the desert, the Israelites still could not pull it together. What hope do we have for people to show kindness over politics? I fear we are doomed! Oh, wait! We do still have climate change and Corona!

We may make it through.
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3476

i have no plan to violate the spirit of the forum initiative. some of my posts have been archived or sent to bunny trails, i have no intention to press boundaries. if i’m found to, i intend to accept correction without contest. and with a spirit to learn better.

i do suspect immersing oneself in social media, mainstream news/entertainment, etc., may be akin to porn addiction, without the obvious and recognized grave aspects - but addiction is addiction.

no respectable person would knowingly offer wine to an alcoholic. possibly we may live to see this recognized as a widespread problem?? real lives are being damaged by it. many are profiting from damaging others. just as drug dealers do.


on a personal level, justme, i have always not only respected you as mod, but i like you (as a virtual presence i get to follow). i have often wished you were my daughter. i would like a daughter like you. i have one daughter and one son. and gratefully so. we had 3 miscarriages, i am joyous for two.

i’m glad my parents had six of us. they were surrounded by loved ones (not always peacefully!) all through their lives. they had each other decades longer than my experience. i cannot expect my two to match that experience. my life doesn’t look like anything i recognize. the pandemic has magnified that. for many-many people.

the vision of enduring all this isolation, then, what? if i’d happen to catch the virus, dying alone somewhere. being buried alone somewhere. as i said, my life does not look like anything i’d ever imagined. nothing.

so often i begin believing i will write one sentence. :roll:
then. :blah:
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Josh

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by Josh »

Of note here:

As far as I know, temporal1 has never claimed to be Mennonite nor Anabaptist and subscribes to a Christian religious belief system that politics / voting etc should be used in order to promote leaders and laws that prevent things like abortion.

I decided a few years ago to stop arguing about this, although it’s pertinent that this board is currently in a “no politics” request from its moderators.

On the other hand, Bootstrap keeps insisting on the primacy of Mennonite and Anabaptist beliefs about politics yet seems very engaged with voting and passing laws to somehow bring about more justice, yet mysteriously spends most his time campaigning against anything politically conservative. It’s a mysterious position to take.
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temporal1

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:
temporal1 wrote:i do not appreciate how boot evidently wallows in the most disgusting items then splashes them here, for whatever purpose motivates him. boot: could you take a break?
Here's what the video shows: Christian nationalists praying during the insurrection. My point: this is not biblical Christianity, certainly not as Mennonites understand it.

Here's what motivates me: we need to return to a Christianity that looks like Jesus.
i appreciate your adult response.
i appreciate oj changed whatever you posted to a less offensive link.

:arrow: i do not know of 1 member on this forum who would have any need to return from a place they’ve never been nor are likely to be.

i question your fascination with certain extremists.
it might be an addiction, i suggest you be cautious about it. sincerely.

i have some addictive temptations.
i abstain from cheesecake. i believe i’d enjoy eating it everyday. :-|

no twitter. or other “mob rule”/gossip tools. :-|

mainstream news+entertainment sources. :-|
most of my life, within limitations, i enjoyed these outlets. this is a difficult one that makes me sad. but i do not care to be led around by people i do not know with agenda not known or honestly disclosed.

there are others.
Christian life is all about making choices, self-restraint, self-control. no one gets a pass. we are all, every one, tested.
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temporal1

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by temporal1 »

:)
Josh:
Of note here:
As far as I know, temporal1 has never claimed to be Mennonite nor Anabaptist and subscribes to a Christian religious belief system that politics / voting etc should be used in order to promote leaders and laws that prevent things like abortion.

i once “claimed” to be Mennonite (possibly facetiously) in a thread wherein comments were made to the effect that “one is Mennonite if one feels they are Mennonite.” it may have been on MD.

in fact, i feel that anyone who actually reads the Bible is likely to find much in common with Mennonites. so many, in church membership or not, do not read. i see this on forum, not just for myself but for many other NMBs. people are attracted because they sense a common interest, or are looking for a third way: Jesus’ Way.

because i have posted so much in politics, i can fully understand the impression i’m a thoroughly political person. i was not raised in a political home, my parents may have voted occasionally, they valued the “secret ballot” to the extent they did not tell each other how they voted! they often said voting is a waste of time. they were not Anabaptist, but they were among the great numbers of those who chose not to vote for many reasons.

i continued my life with this. rarely voting. i couldn’t tell you who i voted for when i voted.
except Shirley Chisholm. i remember that vote. i was young and idealistic and ignorant, just as the young are to be. i thought she was a good idea. looking back, i have no judgment on myself. i just remember it. nothing more.

:arrow: i read on this forum with interest about not voting for religious conviction.
it’s confusing here. lots of opinions. maybe the most confusing are those who seem opinionated+partisan, but claim to be neutral. i understand the temptation. but it’s not convincing.

my most difficult experience has been since my daughter married a Catholic, is raising their daughter as a Catholic. trying to navigate this is difficult. i do everything i can to support and not confuse. i believe God specially protects children. for their location, i believe this is the best choice for her. the child does not realize the world is against her, many will try to destroy her, and think nothing of it. including those in her own family. i pray for her future. i pray she does not come to hate her family and church, which so many young people do.

personally, i don’t feel a part of any church, other than the Christian church. i believe many are in a similar place. some on this forum. i’m not sure of my future on earth or in heaven. i feel pretty lost.

i am sure God knows what is best, and He will decide the best. i will submit.
there were years i was happy in active church membership with my family. i’m grateful for those years. that church was damaged, as many churches have been. Mennonites have similar struggles.

i don’t recall ever being told to vote in church, or for whom to vote.
altho voting was not questioned. it was ok, not discussed or promoted.
many in my life have criticized some churches for being highly political. i agree with this. not the place.
Josh:
I decided a few years ago to stop arguing about this, although it’s pertinent that this board is currently in a “no politics” request from its moderators.
yes.
i appreciate your input, always have, no matter your impatience with me. i’ve admired your heart and intent, which is much more important than your impatience with me.
Josh:
On the other hand, Bootstrap keeps insisting on the primacy of Mennonite and Anabaptist beliefs about politics yet seems very engaged with voting and passing laws to somehow bring about more justice, yet mysteriously spends most his time campaigning against anything politically conservative.
It’s a mysterious position to take.
yes.
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Bootstrap

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:On the other hand, Bootstrap keeps insisting on the primacy of Mennonite and Anabaptist beliefs about politics yet seems very engaged with voting and passing laws to somehow bring about more justice, yet mysteriously spends most his time campaigning against anything politically conservative. It’s a mysterious position to take.
I do keep insisting on the primacy of Mennonite and Anabaptist beliefs about politics.

I see a lot of people who are loud about that but may not be living it out consistently. From where I sit, at least some Mennonites across the political spectrum have a hard time living consistently with the beliefs we claim to have about politics. It's good to talk these things out.

On a forum where many people express strong political views that are conservative, that means I am often arguing against politically conservative views. This thread is about White Christian Nationalism and related beliefs. They use the label "politically conservative" to describe their beliefs. I don't think these are Christian beliefs. In other settings, I argue against liberation theology in much the same way. I haven't seen a lot of people pushing liberation theology here, it's not that kind of forum.

Have I said anything in this thread that you find wrong or offensive? If so, what, and why?
Last edited by Bootstrap on Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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temporal1

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote: I think that even we can be tempted and misled by the world around us. Sometimes it's helpful to remind ourselves to really believe what we believe and live accordingly.

But no, I don't think anyone on MN was up there in that prayer session. Still, seeing just what it looks like in the extreme can help us remember to be skeptical of even milder forms.
ken_sylvania:
Thou of little faith, wherefore dost thou doubt?
Please realize, it’s quite unlikely anyone on this forum, even read-only folks, escape these horrifying images and tapes you seem to take such delight in sharing. You do not do this occasionally or “sometimes.” It’s sadly redundant.

Anyone on the internet, no matter what-all they opt-out of, will still have a certain amount thrown in their faces. For me, enough to see media is just getting worse, so, no going back. i’m sad. i’d like to freely enjoy the internet and other news+entertainment.

i’m sad this forum has lost members, like Hats Off, who by choice and/or fellowship rules, must completely unplug, including this forum. i may have to go there. if i were near family, it might not be in question. this forum is one remaining place. i may lose it.

Your intent is positive.
As you often say, you find gratification in your motives. You feel called to do this. By your own words, you feel committed to stamping out what you see as wrong. Even here, where you also say you see little/no wrong.

Realize, many are trying to put real distance between (ourselves) in a world that is now 100% committed to forcing involvement.

Silence does NOT mean agreement - or anything close to it.
Silence does not deserve ongoing in-your-face confrontation. imho.
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RZehr

Re: The ferocious last gasps of the religion of Christian America

Post by RZehr »

temporal1 wrote::)

:arrow: i read on this forum with interest about not voting for religious conviction.
it’s confusing here. lots of opinions. maybe the most confusing are those who seem opinionated+partisan, but claim to be neutral. i understand the temptation. but it’s not convincing.
Yes. As one of these people who doesn't vote, it is a challenge to know what to comment about, what to be neutral about, while being a true nonpartisian.
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