Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots

[hillperson]

This is what Anabaptists.org says about the Revolutionary War

The Liberties of Nonresistant Christians. Some Americans supported neither side in the Revolution. Instead, as Mennonite and German Baptist leaders said in 1775, "We have dedicated ourselves to serve all men in everything that can be helpful to the preservation of men's lives, but...we are not at liberty in conscience to take up arms to conquer our enemies, but rather to pray to God, who has power in heaven and on earth, for us and them." Chief among these nonresistant Christians were the Quakers, Mennonites, German Baptists, Moravians, and Schwenkfelders.

Most nonresistant Christians were quite content with their lot as British subjects. As three Mennonite bishops in Pennsylvania wrote in 1773, "Through God's mercy we enjoy unlimited freedom in both civil and religious matters." Ironically, once the fight for liberty started, the freedom of nonresistant Christians became sharply limited.

[hillperson]

I do realize that their may have been individual Mennonites who practiced differently.

[Josh]

Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.

[Ken]

Lots of German Mennonites also supported Hitler and the Nazi party. Why?

I'm sorry, Ken, what's your point? Do you think Mennonites in America should have supported the Revolutionary War?

That you can find biblical reasons to support even the most atrocious regime if you want to.

German Christians believing, according to Romans 13 that they were on God's side fought American Christians, who also believed they were on God's side. And millions died.

The Revolutionary war (as I understand it) was not much of a religious war. But I suspect both Loyalists thought they were on the side of God (citing Roman's 13) and the colonists or revolutionaries or whatever they were called (too lazy to google) thought they were fighting for the side of religious freedom.

I'm not a particularly astute student of the Revolutionary War. I know more about the Civil War. But I suspect we have largely been sold a distorted bill of goods in our history books and the case for war was less compelling than the ordinary school kid learns in history. What would I have done if I lived in PA or NY back in 1776? I really don't know. Try to stay out of the whole thing I suspect.

[barnhart]

During the Revolutionary War, Mennonites help soldiers on both sides of the conflict. They honored all men even if it meant hardship. Does anyone know what their role was in the Civil War?

Most lived in Union states and we're isolated from the fighting, the exception being those in Virginia. They were clobbered by both sides, Confederate and Union. Many fled north, some men hid in caves, secret cellars or mountain tops to avoid recruiters.

[Josh]

Part of the point here is that Christians should not be picking up arms and engaging in wars at all, but some people (like you) sure are eager to point out who the "right" side is in violent conflicts, including an unhealthy amount of appreciation for state-sanctioned violence.

[Ken]

Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.

Yes. But I also suspect some of Mennonite history (as cited above) is written with some of the same rose colored glasses I'm not convinced that historic Mennonites were always so noble as our histories teach. Some were, sure. I'm talking about the average folks, not those who got their names into the history books. Listing to my elder relatives and sitting through religious history classes in college I suspect that Mennonites have some of the same blinders about their past too,

[hillperson]

Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.

Yes. But I also suspect some of Mennonite history (as cited above) is written with some of the same rose colored glasses I'm not convinced that historic Mennonites were always so noble as our histories teach. Some were, sure. I'm talking about the average folks, not those who got their names into the history books. Listing to my elder relatives and sitting through religious history classes in college I suspect that Mennonites have some of the same blinders about their past too,

I sense you have a story Ken. If Mennonite history, which I recognize is flawed, triggers you in the spirit of this thread go back to Jesus teachings. I want this thread to be an encouragement to do the right thing in these dark times. I fear some of us have been following the wrong piper. Mennonites have been imperfect but Jesus never fails.

I do find it comforting to dig around in Mennonite history and listen to the stories and read the statements from our church leaders. They faced tough times and some of the decisions they made were outstanding. It gives me hope.

[Ken]

Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.

Yes. But I also suspect some of Mennonite history (as cited above) is written with some of the same rose colored glasses I'm not convinced that historic Mennonites were always so noble as our histories teach. Some were, sure. I'm talking about the average folks, not those who got their names into the history books. Listing to my elder relatives and sitting through religious history classes in college I suspect that Mennonites have some of the same blinders about their past too,

I sense you have a story Ken. If Mennonite history, which I recognize is flawed, triggers you in the spirit of this thread go back to Jesus teachings. I want this thread to be an encouragement to do the right thing in these dark times. I fear some of us have been following the wrong piper. Mennonites have been imperfect but Jesus never fails.

I do find it comforting to dig around in Mennonite history and listen to the stories and read the statements from our church leaders. They faced tough times and some of the decisions they made were outstanding. It gives me hope.

No big story and I'm not triggered. I grew up with the Martyr's Mirror and stories of Mennonite heroes like Dirk Willems. Or more recently, stories of hero war-resister great uncles who were persecuted during WW1 and so on and so forth. All of it carefully cultivated to impart particular models to emulate for young men such as I was at the time. None of it exactly inaccurate. But history is about what you choose to emphasize and what you choose to ignore. As I got older and asked more questions, did more reading, and researching family history. I discovered there was a lot of history that wasn't really spoken about. That I had relatives who served in WW1 and WW2 but were never once spoken about. They were essentially erased from the history we were told when of draft and military age.

I expect most Mennonites muddled through the Revolutionary War and Civil War and earlier Reformation wars much like everyone else did. By mostly trying to keep their heads down and do whatever they could to get by and survive. Just like not all slaves were Harriet Tubman or Sojourner Truth. No all Colonists were Thomas Paine or Alexander Hamilton. And not all historic Mennonites were Dirk Willems or Jacob Gottschalk or the Colonial-era Mennonites who were persecuted for refusing to participate on either side.

My only point is that just as I am suspicious of the rose-colored American history that is passed down to school kids, I'm also suspicious of the rose-colored church history that is passed down to young church folks. Both of them have a particular point of view and motive that is far from an impartial and dispassionate historical record.

[silentreader]

That the church could have become immune to being deceived by "The man of lawlessness".