The Antichrist's identity?

General Christian Theology
gcdonner

Re: The Antichrist's identity?

Post by gcdonner »

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…"

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3
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Outsider

Re: The Antichrist's identity?

Post by Outsider »

gcdonner wrote: I'm sure there were lots of witnesses, but none of them Christians
"and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven". All who weren't killed were converted.
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gcdonner

Re: The Antichrist's identity?

Post by gcdonner »

Outsider wrote:
gcdonner wrote: I'm sure there were lots of witnesses, but none of them Christians
"and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven". All who weren't killed were converted.
That is very possible, though we have no record of it. Historical records were not as plentiful as they are today.
God knows.
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Outsider

Re: The Antichrist's identity?

Post by Outsider »

gcdonner wrote:
Outsider wrote:
gcdonner wrote: I'm sure there were lots of witnesses, but none of them Christians
"and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven". All who weren't killed were converted.
That is very possible, though we have no record of it. Historical records were not as plentiful as they are today.
God knows.
But if everybody in the world were giving each other gifts & celebrating their demise, that would imply were knowledge of the two witnesses and their works were universal. You're telling me that an event which had everybody in the world celebrating wouldn't have been noted?
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gcdonner

Re: The Antichrist's identity?

Post by gcdonner »

Outsider wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
Outsider wrote:
"and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven". All who weren't killed were converted.
That is very possible, though we have no record of it. Historical records were not as plentiful as they are today.
God knows.
But if everybody in the world were giving each other gifts & celebrating their demise, that would imply were knowledge of the two witnesses and their works were universal. You're telling me that an event which had everybody in the world celebrating wouldn't have been noted?
The word is earth, not "world" as you stated, and as scripture uses it here, in this context, it would refer to the part of the earth where this occurred, ie, Jerusalem and environs, perhaps even the whole of the Promised Land. What is in view, in the book of Revelation, as I understand it, is not the end of the globe of the earth or the universe, which God has already declared will last forever, but rather the end of the Old Covenant and it's system. The "world" as the Jews knew it then. Even modern day "Israel" is not a kingdom under the law of Moses, nor has any nation been since the "end" came in AD70. God's covenant with Israel that was then, came to an end.
See Hebrews 8:13.  
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 
The book of Hebrews, as well as the book of Revelation both have in view the end of the OC and the coming to maturity of the NC. See also Heb 12:18-29
Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 
19  And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 
20  (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 
21  And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) 18-21 Describing the OC system and then 22-29 describing & comparing it with the NC
22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 
23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
24  And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 
25  See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 
26  Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 
27  And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 
28  Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 
29  For our God is a consuming fire. 
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Outsider

Re: The Antichrist's identity?

Post by Outsider »

gcdonner wrote: The word is earth, not "world" as you stated, and as scripture uses it here, in this context, it would refer to the part of the earth where this occurred, ie, Jerusalem and environs, perhaps even the whole of the Promised Land.
What word would that be? And even if they used something like the Hebrew word "eretz", you still have all those survivors- not just jews but "those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations", all converted to Christ, and all alive to bear witness to the events.

Not to mention the plagues they were to lay on the world.
What is in view, in the book of Revelation, as I understand it, is not the end of the globe of the earth or the universe, which God has already declared will last forever, but rather the end of the Old Covenant and it's system. The "world" as the Jews knew it then. Even modern day "Israel" is not a kingdom under the law of Moses, nor has any nation been since the "end" came in AD70. God's covenant with Israel that was then, came to an end.
That idea isn't incompatible with a different timeline for Revelation.
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KirkDaniel
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Re: The Antichrist's identity?

Post by KirkDaniel »

More antichrist than the abomination of desolation enthroned in St. Peter's Basilica is the one who makes a pope out of himself.
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