Coronavirus Outbreak

[Ken]

Surely the Trump's Operation Warp Speed, for which they are spending many billions of dollars is including vaccine deployment in their planning efforts, not just development and production. They would not be that incompetent.

President Trump has said he plans on using the military to help distribute and disperse any vaccines, so they would most likely handle a lot of the logistics. I think this is a part of what he is counting on and others may not be considering. We will have to wait to see if it actually happens the way he wants to do it.

What makes sense is to vaccinate front line workers and elderly especially those in long term care centers. This might make it easier to do with complicated vaccines until easier to manage ones come on line.

I did not know the part about using the military but it makes some sense.

Even without it we are the most inter-connected country in history with the greatest rapid distribution network in the history of the world. Any one of us can order nearly anything we want on Amazon and get it delivered to our door in 24 hours. That doesn't happen by magic. It takes immense infrastructure.

There may be a lot of reasons why we don't do a good job with vaccine rollout. But there is no reason why we CAN'T do a good job. This isn't the Congo or the Amazon where dirt roads get washed out by monsoons and it takes weeks to get places. We have the world's biggest air cargo network that reaches every corner of this country.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Surely the Trump's Operation Warp Speed, for which they are spending many billions of dollars is including vaccine deployment in their planning efforts, not just development and production. They would not be that incompetent.

President Trump has said he plans on using the military to help distribute and disperse any vaccines, so they would most likely handle a lot of the logistics. I think this is a part of what he is counting on and others may not be considering. We will have to wait to see if it actually happens the way he wants to do it.

What makes sense is to vaccinate front line workers and elderly especially those in long term care centers. This might make it easier to do with complicated vaccines until easier to manage ones come on line.

I did not know the part about using the military but it makes some sense.

Even without it we are the most inter-connected country in history with the greatest rapid distribution network in the history of the world. Any one of us can order nearly anything we want on Amazon and get it delivered to our door in 24 hours. That doesn't happen by magic. It takes immense infrastructure.

There may be a lot of reasons why we don't do a good job with vaccine rollout. But there is no reason why we CAN'T do a good job. This isn't the Congo or the Amazon where dirt roads get washed out by monsoons and it takes weeks to get places. We have the world's biggest air cargo network that reaches every corner of this country.

It is not the air cargo end of this that gives me pause. It is what happens when the specially sealed, on dry ice, with critical thaw to use times actually arrives. I have no doubt the Kaisers and major hospitals of this country can manage it. But failures occur fairly regularly even in normal times. Have you ever heard how many organs are discarded because of delivery failures? I wish I had a dollar for every time I have sent someone home because of a delivery failure, and the expiry time of the drug arrived and it was still in transit. (Traffic on the American Legion bridge was the favorite) If you are talking about a drug that has to be shipped at -70f, and is only good for an hour or so after it is thawed, than it gets way more complicated. You just cannot inject an expired drug, period. This has never been done before on a large scale. It will require many people to really step up their game. Getting the military is a great idea for transport, but for front line vaccination personnel, not so good of an idea. Do you know where they would get those people? Calling up reservists, which will strip the already overburdened civilian system of personnel. This will fall to the local public health departments. Some are ready (Ours is) and likely some are not. Look how Covid-19 testing has gone for the answer. It is the same mass clinic set up..

Local drugstores likely cannot do this. They just don't have the experience with short expiry drugs, dry ice shipment and getting lots of patients injected fast. The vast majority of them don't even handle IV drugs. My local CVS can't even get my diabetes pills in a timely manner. And carrying this stuff to a nursing home with a short expiry time?

I sincerely hope that the vaccine that gets approved can be handled like normal vaccines. I am reasonably sure the Novavax entry can, but it is further behind the others. I just don't know about the Adenovirus and RNA candidates.

In any case, I would not plan on everyone getting vaccinated quickly. I could be wrong, but I don't see lots of money being allocated to local public health departments to hire and train, and I just don't see this happening on the ground.

J.M.

J.M.

[Robert]

In any case, I would not plan on everyone getting vaccinated quickly. I could be wrong, but I don't see lots of money being allocated to local public health departments to hire and train, and I just don't see this happening on the ground.

Honestly, if it was President Trump who was coordinating all this, I would expect some holes in the system. The reality is VP Pence is overseeing all this and he has been shown to be a very thorough administrator. I suspect these things are being looked at and evaluated.

From my understanding, they plan to have millions of doses already staged and as soon as the FDA approves it, they can immediately start using it because it will already be distributed to many centers. I am sure there will be some nuances depending on the vaccine first approved, but this is the plan for each vaccine as it nears FDA approval. I suspect we will hear more by mid November when the first trials are ready to be approved.

[Ken]

President Trump has said he plans on using the military to help distribute and disperse any vaccines, so they would most likely handle a lot of the logistics. I think this is a part of what he is counting on and others may not be considering. We will have to wait to see if it actually happens the way he wants to do it.

What makes sense is to vaccinate front line workers and elderly especially those in long term care centers. This might make it easier to do with complicated vaccines until easier to manage ones come on line.

I did not know the part about using the military but it makes some sense.

Even without it we are the most inter-connected country in history with the greatest rapid distribution network in the history of the world. Any one of us can order nearly anything we want on Amazon and get it delivered to our door in 24 hours. That doesn't happen by magic. It takes immense infrastructure.

There may be a lot of reasons why we don't do a good job with vaccine rollout. But there is no reason why we CAN'T do a good job. This isn't the Congo or the Amazon where dirt roads get washed out by monsoons and it takes weeks to get places. We have the world's biggest air cargo network that reaches every corner of this country.

It is not the air cargo end of this that gives me pause. It is what happens when the specially sealed, on dry ice, with critical thaw to use times actually arrives. I have no doubt the Kaisers and major hospitals of this country can manage it. But failures occur fairly regularly even in normal times. Have you ever heard how many organs are discarded because of delivery failures? I wish I had a dollar for every time I have sent someone home because of a delivery failure, and the expiry time of the drug arrived and it was still in transit. (Traffic on the American Legion bridge was the favorite) If you are talking about a drug that has to be shipped at -70f, and is only good for an hour or so after it is thawed, than it gets way more complicated. You just cannot inject an expired drug, period. This has never been done before on a large scale. It will require many people to really step up their game. Getting the military is a great idea for transport, but for front line vaccination personnel, not so good of an idea. Do you know where they would get those people? Calling up reservists, which will strip the already overburdened civilian system of personnel. This will fall to the local public health departments. Some are ready (Ours is) and likely some are not. Look how Covid-19 testing has gone for the answer. It is the same mass clinic set up..

Local drugstores likely cannot do this. They just don't have the experience with short expiry drugs, dry ice shipment and getting lots of patients injected fast. The vast majority of them don't even handle IV drugs. My local CVS can't even get my diabetes pills in a timely manner. And carrying this stuff to a nursing home with a short expiry time?

I sincerely hope that the vaccine that gets approved can be handled like normal vaccines. I am reasonably sure the Novavax entry can, but it is further behind the others. I just don't know about the Adenovirus and RNA candidates.

In any case, I would not plan on everyone getting vaccinated quickly. I could be wrong, but I don't see lots of money being allocated to local public health departments to hire and train, and I just don't see this happening on the ground.

J.M.

J.M.

I don't expect any Covid vaccine to be rolled out through your local Walgreens or supermarket pharmacy like they do flu shots. I expect massive centralized operations in places like tent cities in large clinic parking lots, sports arenas, and that sort of thing where they push through tens of thousands of people per day. There will be crowd control management like game day at a Big10 football game. Maybe also massive drive-through vaccination clinics that will look like the toll gates to the Bay Bridge.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I did not know the part about using the military but it makes some sense.

Even without it we are the most inter-connected country in history with the greatest rapid distribution network in the history of the world. Any one of us can order nearly anything we want on Amazon and get it delivered to our door in 24 hours. That doesn't happen by magic. It takes immense infrastructure.

There may be a lot of reasons why we don't do a good job with vaccine rollout. But there is no reason why we CAN'T do a good job. This isn't the Congo or the Amazon where dirt roads get washed out by monsoons and it takes weeks to get places. We have the world's biggest air cargo network that reaches every corner of this country.

It is not the air cargo end of this that gives me pause. It is what happens when the specially sealed, on dry ice, with critical thaw to use times actually arrives. I have no doubt the Kaisers and major hospitals of this country can manage it. But failures occur fairly regularly even in normal times. Have you ever heard how many organs are discarded because of delivery failures? I wish I had a dollar for every time I have sent someone home because of a delivery failure, and the expiry time of the drug arrived and it was still in transit. (Traffic on the American Legion bridge was the favorite) If you are talking about a drug that has to be shipped at -70f, and is only good for an hour or so after it is thawed, than it gets way more complicated. You just cannot inject an expired drug, period. This has never been done before on a large scale. It will require many people to really step up their game. Getting the military is a great idea for transport, but for front line vaccination personnel, not so good of an idea. Do you know where they would get those people? Calling up reservists, which will strip the already overburdened civilian system of personnel. This will fall to the local public health departments. Some are ready (Ours is) and likely some are not. Look how Covid-19 testing has gone for the answer. It is the same mass clinic set up..

Local drugstores likely cannot do this. They just don't have the experience with short expiry drugs, dry ice shipment and getting lots of patients injected fast. The vast majority of them don't even handle IV drugs. My local CVS can't even get my diabetes pills in a timely manner. And carrying this stuff to a nursing home with a short expiry time?

I sincerely hope that the vaccine that gets approved can be handled like normal vaccines. I am reasonably sure the Novavax entry can, but it is further behind the others. I just don't know about the Adenovirus and RNA candidates.

In any case, I would not plan on everyone getting vaccinated quickly. I could be wrong, but I don't see lots of money being allocated to local public health departments to hire and train, and I just don't see this happening on the ground.

J.M.

J.M.

I don't expect any Covid vaccine to be rolled out through your local Walgreens or supermarket pharmacy like they do flu shots. I expect massive centralized operations in places like tent cities in large clinic parking lots, sports arenas, and that sort of thing where they push through tens of thousands of people per day. There will be crowd control management like game day at a Big10 football game. Maybe also massive drive-through vaccination clinics that will look like the toll gates to the Bay Bridge.

That is what I am expecting to see to, as well as my wife. The Covid testings were good dress rehearsals. They are recruiting retirees in our fair state. Their "free flu shot" clinics annually were actually training exercises as well as for the purpose of keeping people healthy.

J.M.

[Ken]

It is not the air cargo end of this that gives me pause. It is what happens when the specially sealed, on dry ice, with critical thaw to use times actually arrives. I have no doubt the Kaisers and major hospitals of this country can manage it. But failures occur fairly regularly even in normal times. Have you ever heard how many organs are discarded because of delivery failures? I wish I had a dollar for every time I have sent someone home because of a delivery failure, and the expiry time of the drug arrived and it was still in transit. (Traffic on the American Legion bridge was the favorite) If you are talking about a drug that has to be shipped at -70f, and is only good for an hour or so after it is thawed, than it gets way more complicated. You just cannot inject an expired drug, period. This has never been done before on a large scale. It will require many people to really step up their game. Getting the military is a great idea for transport, but for front line vaccination personnel, not so good of an idea. Do you know where they would get those people? Calling up reservists, which will strip the already overburdened civilian system of personnel. This will fall to the local public health departments. Some are ready (Ours is) and likely some are not. Look how Covid-19 testing has gone for the answer. It is the same mass clinic set up..

Local drugstores likely cannot do this. They just don't have the experience with short expiry drugs, dry ice shipment and getting lots of patients injected fast. The vast majority of them don't even handle IV drugs. My local CVS can't even get my diabetes pills in a timely manner. And carrying this stuff to a nursing home with a short expiry time?

I sincerely hope that the vaccine that gets approved can be handled like normal vaccines. I am reasonably sure the Novavax entry can, but it is further behind the others. I just don't know about the Adenovirus and RNA candidates.

In any case, I would not plan on everyone getting vaccinated quickly. I could be wrong, but I don't see lots of money being allocated to local public health departments to hire and train, and I just don't see this happening on the ground.

J.M.

J.M.

I don't expect any Covid vaccine to be rolled out through your local Walgreens or supermarket pharmacy like they do flu shots. I expect massive centralized operations in places like tent cities in large clinic parking lots, sports arenas, and that sort of thing where they push through tens of thousands of people per day. There will be crowd control management like game day at a Big10 football game. Maybe also massive drive-through vaccination clinics that will look like the toll gates to the Bay Bridge.

That is what I am expecting to see to, as well as my wife. The Covid testings were good dress rehearsals. They are recruiting retirees in our fair state. Their "free flu shot" clinics annually were actually training exercises as well as for the purpose of keeping people healthy.

J.M.

Where I would expect the military (more likely the Guard) to come in would be crowd control, directing traffic, lines of cars, deploying tent facilities, massive portable generators, that sort of thing. The actual active duty military is pretty small and they are on fairly tight rotations through training and deployments and such. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops just sitting around with nothing to do because there is no war on. For every nurse giving a shot you probably need 25 other people just directing traffic and doing mundane tasks like data entry and collecting forms. That will be an army of public employees like cops as well as volunteers, teachers, retirees, etc. But probably not many soldiers.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I don't expect any Covid vaccine to be rolled out through your local Walgreens or supermarket pharmacy like they do flu shots. I expect massive centralized operations in places like tent cities in large clinic parking lots, sports arenas, and that sort of thing where they push through tens of thousands of people per day. There will be crowd control management like game day at a Big10 football game. Maybe also massive drive-through vaccination clinics that will look like the toll gates to the Bay Bridge.

That is what I am expecting to see to, as well as my wife. The Covid testings were good dress rehearsals. They are recruiting retirees in our fair state. Their "free flu shot" clinics annually were actually training exercises as well as for the purpose of keeping people healthy.

J.M.

Where I would expect the military (more likely the Guard) to come in would be crowd control, directing traffic, lines of cars, deploying tent facilities, massive portable generators, that sort of thing. The actual active duty military is pretty small and they are on fairly tight rotations through training and deployments and such. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops just sitting around with nothing to do because there is no war on. For every nurse giving a shot you probably need 25 other people just directing traffic and doing mundane tasks like data entry and collecting forms. That will be an army of public employees like cops as well as volunteers, teachers, retirees, etc. But probably not many soldiers.

That is exactly what the Guard did during our large Covid testing drive through clinics. The actual swab handlers were nurses.

J.M.

[Robert]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/19/cvs-to- ... ccine.html

CVS wants to immediately hire 15,000 employees to prepare for an expected rise in Covid-19 and flu cases this fall and winter.
More than 10,000 of those will be full-time and part-time licensed pharmacy technicians who can help dispense medications and administer Covid-19 tests.
The expanding staffing could also help CVS prepare for the rollout of the Covid-19 vaccine, if federal officials allow pharmacy technicians to administer it.

[Ken]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/19/cvs-to- ... ccine.html

CVS wants to immediately hire 15,000 employees to prepare for an expected rise in Covid-19 and flu cases this fall and winter.
More than 10,000 of those will be full-time and part-time licensed pharmacy technicians who can help dispense medications and administer Covid-19 tests.
The expanding staffing could also help CVS prepare for the rollout of the Covid-19 vaccine, if federal officials allow pharmacy technicians to administer it.

Yeah, I'm more optimistic than JM I guess. There is no more important single task in this decade or even century to date, than getting this done. There will no doubt be endless hiccups. But getting a vaccine out fast is going to consume this country, and no expense will be spared. Every state, county, town, and large medical institution will throw all they have at it, no expenses spared.

[Judas Maccabeus]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/19/cvs-to- ... ccine.html

CVS wants to immediately hire 15,000 employees to prepare for an expected rise in Covid-19 and flu cases this fall and winter.
More than 10,000 of those will be full-time and part-time licensed pharmacy technicians who can help dispense medications and administer Covid-19 tests.
The expanding staffing could also help CVS prepare for the rollout of the Covid-19 vaccine, if federal officials allow pharmacy technicians to administer it.

Yeah, I'm more optimistic than JM I guess. There is no more important single task in this decade or even century to date, than getting this done. There will no doubt be endless hiccups. But getting a vaccine out fast is going to consume this country, and no expense will be spared. Every state, county, town, and large medical institution will throw all they have at it, no expenses spared.

And just where are they going to get these highly trained people? Thin air? You think there are all these people sitting on their hands?

Also, it would be the state boards that decide who can and cannot inject. Both pharmacists and MDs are state regulated, not federal. And finding 10,000 people trained, passed their boards, and licensed in 3 months? No, I am not optimistic. I suspect that most of it will be mass vaccination by the local health department, community pharmacies just won’t cut it. The local CVS still does not have Covid testing on a regular basis. County health department does.

J.M.