Kingdom Christian and Charity Movements

[Ernie]

When it comes to doctrine, I try to stick with scriptural wording and not add to or detract from the text. If everyone did this, we may think different things but at least we are all saying the same thing. If we don't stick with scripture wording, it is easy to end up with opposite beliefs.

Isn't this essentially what BMA tries? Or would your view be they try to stick only with the words of scripture for practice and add to them for doctrine?

Is there a reason in your mind not to just stick with the words of scripture in both spheres? That is probably the direction I would advocate for...

I have no problem with "Orders" adopting practices not specified in scripture as long as they are willing to commune with folks who don't adopt these practices. I explain at the link below why I have come to this conclusion... https://www.churchplantersforum.org/wp- ... st-Eby.pdf

[Judas Maccabeus]

Correct.
Followers of the Way wants to know something about the personal lives of people they commune with and know that they are kingdom Christian.
http://www.Walking-by-faith.org wants the confidence that people are not living in known sin such as adultery.

It is not that, most clearly. If it were, a card carrying member of a well reputed church in a well reputed conference should be as much as they could find from social interaction at conferences. It appears, Ernie, you have something they want/need.

Several that I know that are members of in good standing churches that hold higher, or equal standards are not invited when they are in Boston. Maybe skepticism of their positions may be it, I will admit if find baptismal regeneration heretical and consubstantiation warmed over popary. Maybe they are not seen as influencers, as you are likely seen as. Maybe to enforce an in/out group mentality. "Secret" communion services would really worry me. I was to three communion services before I was a member of my current church, I heard small babies so the mother could participate. I would say, this is the "right" way to do it.

Their lack of a statement of faith makes things even more obtuse. Just what do they believe, anyway?

In general secret meetings are generally a bad sign, watch, but not participate is frequently in order. It also brings out the "what are you hiding" question.

If they are calling people "apostles" that is a really bad sign. Is this so? Normally, groups like this go down the OTVC route, in a way that is far worse than the COGICM or Froliech groups. Generally, groups that start to call their leaders such wind up as cults. Seen it too many times.

J.M.

[Soloist]

Their lack of a statement of faith makes things even more obtuse. Just what do they believe, anyway?

In general secret meetings are generally a bad sign, watch, but not participate is frequently in order. It also brings out the "what are you hiding" question.

If they are calling people "apostles" that is a really bad sign. Is this so? Normally, groups like this go down the OTVC route, in a way that is far worse than the COGICM or Froliech groups. Generally, groups that start to call their leaders such wind up as cults. Seen it too many times.

J.M.

Personally I have my misgivings but I'd rather we pray it doesn't happen. Especially with a college pulling in young people.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Their lack of a statement of faith makes things even more obtuse. Just what do they believe, anyway?

In general secret meetings are generally a bad sign, watch, but not participate is frequently in order. It also brings out the "what are you hiding" question.

If they are calling people "apostles" that is a really bad sign. Is this so? Normally, groups like this go down the OTVC route, in a way that is far worse than the COGICM or Froliech groups. Generally, groups that start to call their leaders such wind up as cults. Seen it too many times.

J.M.

Personally I have my misgivings but I'd rather we pray it doesn't happen. Especially with a college pulling in young people.

If asked, I would still encourage young people to stay home, and go to one of the many colleges nearby. Remain planted and discipled by your church.

I regard Sattler's programs of study nearly useless for future employment. Their emphasis on languages is great, IF you want to be a Bible translator, but farming out your labs, and using courses from other schools? Really?

A year at Faith Builders, SMBI or the like, followed by the local college is likely to have a far better result over the long haul. Less debt too. Do you know what they charge?

J.M.

[Soloist]

If asked, I would still encourage young people to stay home, and go to one of the many colleges nearby. Remain planted and discipled by your church.

I regard Sattler's programs of study nearly useless for future employment. Their emphasis on languages is great, IF you want to be a Bible translator, but farming out your labs, and using courses from other schools? Really?

A year at Faith Builders, SMBI or the like, followed by the local college is likely to have a far better result over the long haul. Less debt too. Do you know what they charge?

J.M.

I don't... I doubt they would work for the post 9/11 GI bill yet anyway.

[Judas Maccabeus]

If asked, I would still encourage young people to stay home, and go to one of the many colleges nearby. Remain planted and discipled by your church.

I regard Sattler's programs of study nearly useless for future employment. Their emphasis on languages is great, IF you want to be a Bible translator, but farming out your labs, and using courses from other schools? Really?

A year at Faith Builders, SMBI or the like, followed by the local college is likely to have a far better result over the long haul. Less debt too. Do you know what they charge?

J.M.

I don't... I doubt they would work for the post 9/11 GI bill yet anyway.

I do know they don’t take federal aid. If you are considering a healthcare career, it is likely one of the worse possible options.

J.M.

[Soloist]

I do know they don’t take federal aid. If you are considering a healthcare career, it is likely one of the worse possible options.

J.M.

Well I'm not going to look there. What I need seems to be hard to find near a decent church. I need a bridge program. If you know a decent one, go ahead and pm. I'm blaming pneumonia.

[joshuabgood]

When it comes to doctrine, I try to stick with scriptural wording and not add to or detract from the text. If everyone did this, we may think different things but at least we are all saying the same thing. If we don't stick with scripture wording, it is easy to end up with opposite beliefs.

Isn't this essentially what BMA tries? Or would your view be they try to stick only with the words of scripture for practice and add to them for doctrine?

Is there a reason in your mind not to just stick with the words of scripture in both spheres? That is probably the direction I would advocate for...

I have no problem with "Orders" adopting practices not specified in scripture as long as they are willing to commune with folks who don't adopt these practices. I explain at the link below why I have come to this conclusion... https://www.churchplantersforum.org/wp- ... st-Eby.pdf

Right...I appreciate that document. My question is more along the lines of why you see documents spelling out a "rule," to use your language, for beliefs/doctrine, is different than a "rule" for practice/application. What philosophically is different to your way of thinking?

[Josh]

Isn't this essentially what BMA tries? Or would your view be they try to stick only with the words of scripture for practice and add to them for doctrine?

Is there a reason in your mind not to just stick with the words of scripture in both spheres? That is probably the direction I would advocate for...

I have no problem with "Orders" adopting practices not specified in scripture as long as they are willing to commune with folks who don't adopt these practices. I explain at the link below why I have come to this conclusion... https://www.churchplantersforum.org/wp- ... st-Eby.pdf

Right...I appreciate that document. My question is more along the lines of why you see documents spelling out a "rule," to use your language, for beliefs/doctrine, is different than a "rule" for practice/application. What philosophically is different to your way of thinking?

This is a good question and one I’ve wondered about as well - in other words, how exactly are beliefs/doctrine different than practice/application?

[Ernie]

I have no problem with "Orders" adopting practices not specified in scripture as long as they are willing to commune with folks who don't adopt these practices. I explain at the link below why I have come to this conclusion... https://www.churchplantersforum.org/wp- ... st-Eby.pdf

Right...I appreciate that document. My question is more along the lines of why you see documents spelling out a "rule," to use your language, for beliefs/doctrine, is different than a "rule" for practice/application. What philosophically is different to your way of thinking?

This is a good question and one I’ve wondered about as well - in other words, how exactly are beliefs/doctrine different than practice/application?

There is such a thing as the "apostles doctrine" that we are not to deviate from. In my opinion the doctrines are not very hard to identify.
There are practices taught in the NT that we are to practice as well, but these are much harder to identify.
Which of the "descriptive" practices should we follow? Use of the lot for ordinations? Gathering in a large upper room for communion? Meeting in homes for worship? Having a meal in conjunction with communion. Going to Jewish temples for worship?
Which of the "prescriptive" practices should we follow? Eating at home before gathering with the saints? Men lifting holy hands in prayer? (what about the women) Anointing our heads before we fast? Shaking the dust off our feet (literally) whenever people reject the Gospel?

I view Peter and Paul's admonitions regarding jewelry, hair, adornment as being applicable for us today. But I think if they were living today, and writing letters to the churches, they might address other issues as well. I think a church has the authority to address current issues today, as well, and agree on a good way to follow Jesus in 2020.