The Antichrist's identity?

[Josh]

President-elect Donald J. Trump is descended from German and Scottish ancestors.
A closer look at his antecedents, sentiments, and actions indicates the strong possibility
of both Hebrew and Jewish ancestry.

Well, that would explain why a lot of anti-semites and white supremacists are so anti-Trump, like Richard Spencer, who recently expressed his strong support for Joe Biden.

[Fidelio]

So did those guys believe the Antichrist to be a single person? If so, then they are not in agreement since they were not talking about the same pope because there was many popes spanning that period from 1483 to 1791.
Are they saying the Antichrist was a position? A position that has been around for over 1,000 years?

Seems to me the Pope is The Antichrist, and then there are many smaller antichrists apart from him.

I don't see how anyone but the Pope can fit the definition in 2 Thess.2:4
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Who else "sitteth in the temple of God"? Or what other church leader "shewing himself that he is God" makes such claims as of the Pope when --speaking "ex cathedra" (Catholic doctrine of Papal infallibility)?

Among Lutherans it is debated whether the Antichrist is the office of the Pope, or the Pope himself. I would hold that the office of the Pope is a weak argument. It has to be the very Pope and every pope. So then, the Antichrist is every pope from the first to the last and is the one in office today for our purposes.

[gcdonner]

So did those guys believe the Antichrist to be a single person? If so, then they are not in agreement since they were not talking about the same pope because there was many popes spanning that period from 1483 to 1791.
Are they saying the Antichrist was a position? A position that has been around for over 1,000 years?

Seems to me the Pope is The Antichrist, and then there are many smaller antichrists apart from him.

I don't see how anyone but the Pope can fit the definition in 2 Thess.2:4
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Who else "sitteth in the temple of God"? Or what other church leader "shewing himself that he is God" makes such claims as of the Pope when --speaking "ex cathedra" (Catholic doctrine of Papal infallibility)?

Among Lutherans it is debated whether the Antichrist is the office of the Pope, or the Pope himself. I would hold that the office of the Pope is a weak argument. It has to be the very Pope and every pope. So then, the Antichrist is every pope from the first to the last and is the one in office today for our purposes.

Where in 2 Thess is anti-christ mentioned? There is no reason to confound the anti-christ with the man of sin, nor with the beast of Revelation. From my perspective any compilation of these various entities together into one personage misses the point, and does violence to the scripture itself.

[Valerie]

In my Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs (David Bercot) "The" Antichrist (as opposed to antichrists) was taught to come from the Tribe of Dan. The 2000 yr old Orthodox Christian Church still hold to that understanding. Now, that's interesting when you consider where the tribe of Dan ended up. But if "He" comes from Tribe of Dan by lineage, it's easy to rule alot of speculations out. The Scriptures teach about Him for a reason, but not to obsess about it. I think that the passages that convey the world will be deceived causes Christians to have legitimate concerns for others.

President-elect Donald J. Trump is descended from German and Scottish ancestors.
A closer look at his antecedents, sentiments, and actions indicates the strong possibility
of both Hebrew and Jewish ancestry.

Trump has come up because of that- if you hold to the ancient belief The AntiChrist will come from the Tribe of Dan. It certainly rules out Pope after Pope that was so peculsted much later. It's I retesting to read about the Tribe of Dan, the prophesy, & speculation where they ended up. I have read that many in the Orthodox Church believe "The" AntiChrist (not just the many antichrists or Antichrist spirit) is a alive presently. Awareness that he will arrive on the world s scene is Scriptural but can lead to wrong conclusions which ends up discrediting Christians-

One name when considering world leaders presently, & considering where tribe of Dan exiled & that the tribe of Dan is not included in the 12 Tribes of Israel listed in Revelation 7- President of France, whose name is "Emmanuel Macron". We had read something concerning about him a few months ago & thought his first name interesting, his last name can make him a descendent-
He will deceive "the world" so be kept by the True Emmanuel, Jesus Christ

[PetrChelcicky]

Isn't the most important point in all prophecies that the Anti-Christ will be a fake of the returning Christ? And his cult will be connected with an imitation of Christianity which will persuade a lot of Christians to join it?

[barnhart]

There seemed to be quite an agreement on the identity of the Antichrist, even up until as recent as 200 years ago. What has changed? Did the Scriptures change?.

I think geo-politics changed. The rise of secular nation states coupled with the shrinking political power of the Vatican means the pope does not dominate the minds of protestants as in the past. Also anti communism and anti liberalism have put many protestants on the same side as the pope. This could change if the pope takes a more progressive stance on issues like the environment, immigration and war against islam. He might become the antichrist again.

[Ken]

There seemed to be quite an agreement on the identity of the Antichrist, even up until as recent as 200 years ago. What has changed? Did the Scriptures change?.

I think geo-politics changed. The rise of secular nation states coupled with the shrinking political power of the Vatican means the pope does not dominate the minds of protestants as in the past. Also anti communism and anti liberalism have put many protestants on the same side as the pope. This could change if the pope takes a more progressive stance on issues like the environment, immigration and war against islam. He might become the antichrist again.

I expect that is it exactly.

In past centuries, the Pope and the Vatican formed political alliances with certain nations and heads of state making him the political enemy of others. The 30 years war between 1618 and 1648 was, in effect, the actual first world war and the pope and the Vatican were actual aggressors and participants on the side of the Hapsburg League. It is easy to imagine why northern European protestants would view the Pope as the Antichrist when Catholic League and Holy Roman Empire armies from Southern Europe were ravaging their lands, causing the deaths of upwards of 20% of the total population. In effect, he was their generation's Hitler or Stalin.

[Valerie]

Isn't the most important point in all prophecies that the Anti-Christ will be a fake of the returning Christ? And his cult will be connected with an imitation of Christianity which will persuade a lot of Christians to join it?

I'm thinking that Scripture prophecies seem to imply this

[gcdonner]

Isn't the most important point in all prophecies that the Anti-Christ will be a fake of the returning Christ? And his cult will be connected with an imitation of Christianity which will persuade a lot of Christians to join it?

I'm thinking that Scripture prophecies seem to imply this

Where in scripture is this implied? I see a lot of speculation going on with very little biblical foundation.
"Any text taken out of context becomes a pretext". There is a lot of that going on in this discussion.

[Valerie]

Isn't the most important point in all prophecies that the Anti-Christ will be a fake of the returning Christ? And his cult will be connected with an imitation of Christianity which will persuade a lot of Christians to join it?

I'm thinking that Scripture prophecies seem to imply this

Where in scripture is this implied? I see a lot of speculation going on with very little biblical foundation.
"Any text taken out of context becomes a pretext". There is a lot of that going on in this discussion.

Certainly rightly dividing the Word of Truth is important- and their are certainly divisions among us at doing this correctly, each believer tries to make their case with their own forumulas- I tend to lean towards what the early Church fathers of the faith shared & why- I realize the 'falling away of the faith' happens more 'at the end' than in the very beginning, because heresy was easier to address in the beginning before the Reformation where there was much more acceptance of various interpretations-

In answer to your question though- this is one of the passages from 2 Thessalonians 2, but the early Church fathers spoke a lot about this, too much to share now-

The Man of Sin

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.