Kingdom Christian and Charity Movements

[Judas Maccabeus]

The most striking distinction I find between the Kingdom Movement and (early) Anabaptism is that Anabaptism, as a restorationist movement, grounds itself solidly in the words of Jesus, giving them primacy and often taking them and practicing them in their most literal sense. The Kingdom movement seems to have a strong affinity for the primacy of the teachings of the ante-Nicene "church fathers", based on a few assumptions about the purity of their interpretation of scripture and Apostolic teaching. In many ways they seem to have a lot more in common theologically with The Stone-Campbell movement, and I have long wondered about it's relationship (in particular FotW) to the Boston Church of Christ (or the now ICOC).

I think their relationship to Conservative Mennonites is a result of their close association with David Bercot and Finney's previous involvement with the Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonites. It seems that they have drawn in a few ex-Mennonites - perhaps the sort of folks who would have been attracted to the "less legalistic" Charity movement of the last generation. I think the Kingdom movement is the "Charity" of the current young generation of Mennonites.

I was very interested in FoTW when I first heard of them, but after a visit and on-line interaction with some of members I would have to say that I am "alienated" from them.

Interesting. I thought I was the only one who thought them "Stone-Campbell." Two of Sattler College's board are clearly so.

J.M.

[GaryK]

last I heard a few years back Chuck Pike's group wasn't allowed to take communion due to some distinct theological differences. I heard this second hand though so...

I must be a moderate. Both invited me to commune at their gatherings.

You must be quite special. I have been to Boston multiple times, and have received no such invitation. I suspect I am too "Mennonite."

J.M.

I suspect how much interaction one has had with these groups outside of visiting their churches comes into play. Chuck Pike participated in two Church Planters Forums and Finny Kuruvilla has spoken at all of these Forums Ernie coordinates.

[Josh]

I must be a moderate. Both invited me to commune at their gatherings.

You must be quite special. I have been to Boston multiple times, and have received no such invitation. I suspect I am too "Mennonite."

J.M.

I suspect how much interaction one has had with these groups outside of visiting their churches comes into play. Chuck Pike participated in two Church Planters Forums and Finny Kuruvilla has spoken at all of these Forums Ernie coordinates.

That’s an odd criteria to determine who can come to communion.

[GaryK]

You must be quite special. I have been to Boston multiple times, and have received no such invitation. I suspect I am too "Mennonite."

J.M.

I suspect how much interaction one has had with these groups outside of visiting their churches comes into play. Chuck Pike participated in two Church Planters Forums and Finny Kuruvilla has spoken at all of these Forums Ernie coordinates.

That’s an odd criteria to determine who can come to communion.

I'm not suggesting that is a criterion for participating in communion. I'm suspecting both of them know Ernie quite well through his interactions with them outside of visiting their church services. I simply used the CPFR as an example.

[Ernie]

Correct.
Followers of the Way wants to know something about the personal lives of people they commune with and know that they are kingdom Christian.
www.Walking-by-faith.org wants the confidence that people are not living in known sin such as adultery.

[Soloist]

Correct.
Followers of the Way wants to know something about the personal lives of people they commune with and know that they are kingdom Christian.
http://www.Walking-by-faith.org wants the confidence that people are not living in known sin such as adultery.

Do you believe in their view of baptismal regeneration? Do you believe in the real presence?
What is your view on their choice of using the term Apostles rather then evangelists, pastors or church planters?
Would your church allow them to commune if they came?

[Josh]

Correct.
Followers of the Way wants to know something about the personal lives of people they commune with and know that they are kingdom Christian.
http://www.Walking-by-faith.org wants the confidence that people are not living in known sin such as adultery.

Do you believe in their view of baptismal regeneration? Do you believe in the real presence?
What is your view on their choice of using the term Apostles rather then evangelists, pastors or church planters?
Would your church allow them to commune if they came?

Of particular interest would be if they would allow someone like Ernie to attend their secret members’ meeting which they hold before their public worship service.

[Ernie]

Do you believe in their view of baptismal regeneration?

I'm not sure what their view is. Not sure if they have a unified view or not. They now have at least three congregations in Boston. I believe in baptism for the remission of sins (whatever that means).
When it comes to doctrine, I try to stick with scriptural wording and not add to or detract from the text. If everyone did this, we may think different things but at least we are all saying the same thing. If we don't stick with scripture wording, it is easy to end up with opposite beliefs.

Do you believe in the real presence?

Probably not what they believe but I don't know.

What is your view on their choice of using the term Apostles rather then evangelists, pastors or church planters?

I'm not opposed to churches using this term if it simply means church planter. If it means more than that, than I am wary of it.

Would your church allow them to commune if they came?

Probably, if we knew something about the people.

Of particular interest would be if they would allow someone like Ernie to attend their secret members’ meeting which they hold before their public worship service.

I attended this in the past and was not aware that it was a secret members' meeting but rather the local church as well as trusted visitors. I understand that when visitors are not present, it is time for confession and general housekeeping. This seems like a good thing to me.

[joshuabgood]

When it comes to doctrine, I try to stick with scriptural wording and not add to or detract from the text. If everyone did this, we may think different things but at least we are all saying the same thing. If we don't stick with scripture wording, it is easy to end up with opposite beliefs.

Isn't this essentially what BMA tries? Or would your view be they try to stick only with the words of scripture for practice and add to them for doctrine?

Is there a reason in your mind not to just stick with the words of scripture in both spheres? That is probably the direction I would advocate for...

[Josh]

When it comes to doctrine, I try to stick with scriptural wording and not add to or detract from the text. If everyone did this, we may think different things but at least we are all saying the same thing. If we don't stick with scripture wording, it is easy to end up with opposite beliefs.

Isn't this essentially what BMA tries? Or would your view be they try to stick only with the words of scripture for practice and add to them for doctrine?

Is there a reason in your mind not to just stick with the words of scripture in both spheres? That is probably the direction I would advocate for...

BMA ends up more just using the same terms there broader evangelical world uses, which isn’t surprising since the LMC and CMC are also doing the exact same thing.