Culture, has it become a burden and stumbling block.

[steve-in-kville]

The culture sells itself. It is often the allure that draws NAB people to start with.

Its safe to say this is what lured me in as an ignorant 17 y/o. It also is what pushed me away in my late 30's.

[Ernie]

That said, what has been interesting is that the biggest movement of church planters has come not from the progressive conservatives or moderates but the ultra conservative churches into new lands like Australia. The other churches would be much, much easier to adjust one's lifestyle into but they don't step outside of the USA from what I can tell. Beachy Amish and BMA being the exceptions to that pattern.

Beachy Amish-Mennonites are the largest moderate-conservative group, and BMA is the largest progressive-conservative group. And yes, these are planting churches outside the USA. Other moderate-conservative groups run ministries like IGO (Institute for Global Opportunities (which includes church planting and other ministries). There are also teaching ministries, Bible translation and church planting, humanitarian based church plants, around the world that are staffed by moderate-conservatives. These folks tend not to be as denominational, which means they are more likely to build up the churches already established in other countries and help them become more scriptural, rather than promote a new brand and run competition with other churches.

[Josh]

Generally speaking the Beachy and other moderate- or progressive-conservative groups have a fair number of missions but seem to be unsuccessful at retaining converts and establishing indigenously led churches. The ultra conservative groups tend to be successful at this.

[Ernie]

Generally speaking the Beachy and other moderate- or progressive-conservative groups have a fair number of missions but seem to be unsuccessful at retaining converts and establishing indigenously led churches. The ultra conservative groups tend to be successful at this.

I'm not sure who or what you are talking about. Mennonite Air Missions is the only mission/church I know of that has over 50% native bishops. None of the other groups have anything close to that that I am aware of. Enlighten me if you know of something different.

[Josh]

Generally speaking the Beachy and other moderate- or progressive-conservative groups have a fair number of missions but seem to be unsuccessful at retaining converts and establishing indigenously led churches. The ultra conservative groups tend to be successful at this.

I'm not sure who or what you are talking about. Mennonite Air Missions is the only mission/church I know of that has over 50% native bishops. None of the other groups have anything close to that that I am aware of. Enlighten me if you know of something different.

My perspective is the moderate groups like Beachys have zero success. My Beachy mission eventually disbanded. The people who came back from Beachy missions in CR reported the same thing.

If I look at ultra missions, there is a handful of churches I see with last names of leaders I don’t recognise as plain names. (It’s true I can’t find any with indigenous bishops. Good point.)

Holdemans have a lot of indigenous led churches. I would place Holdemans as having elements of intermediates and of ultras and generally conduct missions the same way ultras do.

[Ernie]

If I look at ultra missions, there is a handful of churches I see with last names of leaders I don’t recognise as plain names. (It’s true I can’t find any with indigenous bishops. Good point.)

Nationwide's churches in Nigeria in years past were already established churches who came under Nationwide oversight. Last I heard these churches were being removed from Nationwide and I do not see them listed in the 2020 CLP directory.

Of the 30 foreign churches listed, there are 65 Anabapatist last name leaders and 8 non-Anabaptist last name leaders. I'm seeing a much higher ratio for Beachy foreign churches. So I don't think we can judge the whole constituency based on your Beachy mission.

[Josh]

If I look at ultra missions, there is a handful of churches I see with last names of leaders I don’t recognise as plain names. (It’s true I can’t find any with indigenous bishops. Good point.)

Nationwide's churches in Nigeria in years past were already established churches who came under Nationwide oversight. Last I heard these churches were being removed from Nationwide and I do not see them listed in the 2020 CLP directory.

Of the 30 foreign churches listed, there are 65 Anabapatist last name leaders and 8 non-Anabaptist last name leaders. I'm seeing a much higher ratio for Beachy foreign churches. So I don't think we can judge the whole constituency based on your Beachy mission.

I last counted up these numbers in 2016. Guess things have changed since then.

[Wade]

The culture sells itself. It is often the allure that draws NAB people to start with.

Its safe to say this is what lured me in as an ignorant 17 y/o. It also is what pushed me away in my late 30's.

I guess it all depends what we see.
Some people see: clothing, quilts, headcoverings, rural living, and etc.

Others see: honesty, integrity, commitment to Christ, love, and etc.

This can largely depend on what others draw our attention too and granted culture is usually big enough to have influence enough that it is hard to avoid.

However, we also can focus on things so much that they become such a focus that we miss bigger traits that are expressed much more than what our focus is but miss them. I think we have more responsibility in this than we ever care to admit, and finally those traits we tend to focus on the most might be an indication of our own expressions that we may be blind too. Pride and a critical attitude are two traits that are manifested in many ways that it can be elusive.

We have a choice as to what we focus on and express in our own lives. I think one of the more important questions to ask myself is not what I notice outwardly of others but rather what do I express to others.

[PetrChelcicky]

My five cent:
There is a process called "stimulus diffusion". For example by knowing about another people's scriptures somepeople were stimulated to develop their own letters. Insofar: Must a peculiar European-Mennonite culture be a stumbling block? Can't it be a stimulus to develop a peculiar Hispanic-Mennonite style?

[Ken]

My five cent:
There is a process called "stimulus diffusion". For example by knowing about another people's scriptures somepeople were stimulated to develop their own letters. Insofar: Must a peculiar European-Mennonite culture be a stumbling block? Can't it be a stimulus to develop a peculiar Hispanic-Mennonite style?

That is already happening. There are thousands of different Protestant churches of every flavor cropping up all across Latin America with all their own traditions and notions of modest dress and food and so forth. And some of them are peace-oriented churches that draw on Anabaptist/Quaker etc. roots. They just understandably aren't going to be particularly interested in the cultural and religious traditions of one particularly small Northern European sect that until recently was mostly concentrated in North America. Especially when they also have their own even Spanish and Indigenous roots going back even further. Yes you can have missions and found churches in Latin America, but they are honestly always going to be a statistically insignificant drop in the bucket compared to the larger religious trends in that region.

When I worked in Guatemala I was always impressed by the diverse and complicated blend of Christian and Mayan traditions that permeated live in highlands Guatemala. Yes you can air-drop in with costumes based on 17th century European peasant dress styles, and food traditions based on Northern European farming customs. But they already have their own deeper and richer traditions. And no matter what forms of dress and traditions you bring from North America, you will always be cultural outsiders, whether it is Mennonites in cape dresses or Mormons in white shirts and ties. Or any other mission group.