Poll: Concealed Weapons among Plain Anabaptists?

[joshuabgood]

A rule of thumb is you need to spend more on training classes, range time, first aid class, etc. as you do on the firearm, holsters, accessories, ammo, etc.

(Same rule I used to have when I rode motorcycles. I'd tell young guys they need to spend more on gear like helmets, leathers, etc. that they did on the bike. Of course, a lot didn't listen, and bought a brand new fancy sportbike, and a cheap $50 helmet which was uncomfortable, and no leathers at all. Then they'd end up sliding down the road, and learned about the "built in" layer of leathers every human comes with.)

And in the ER we would spend an hour or so picking out the rocks.

I well remember the guy that went riding in flip flops. Had a fall at about 50 mph. Front of his foot must have slid for quite a way, between his bike and the road. Asked "where are my toes?"

ER doc answers "Route 40."

J.M.

After owning many different Motorcycles over the last 2.5 decades, from dirtbikes to a Suzuki GSXR 750 to 1973 Honda CB 360 to a Triumph Bonneville, I sold my last one a month or two ago. Done motorcycling. Too dangerous and wife didn't like them. But in the meantime I enjoyed it and really was never "down."

[steve-in-kville]

^^^^ Most intelligent post I've seen in this thread

[Ken]

A rule of thumb is you need to spend more on training classes, range time, first aid class, etc. as you do on the firearm, holsters, accessories, ammo, etc.

(Same rule I used to have when I rode motorcycles. I'd tell young guys they need to spend more on gear like helmets, leathers, etc. that they did on the bike. Of course, a lot didn't listen, and bought a brand new fancy sportbike, and a cheap $50 helmet which was uncomfortable, and no leathers at all. Then they'd end up sliding down the road, and learned about the "built in" layer of leathers every human comes with.)

And in the ER we would spend an hour or so picking out the rocks.

I well remember the guy that went riding in flip flops. Had a fall at about 50 mph. Front of his foot must have slid for quite a way, between his bike and the road. Asked "where are my toes?"

ER doc answers "Route 40."

J.M.

After owning many different Motorcycles over the last 2.5 decades, from dirtbikes to a Suzuki GSXR 750 to 1973 Honda CB 360 to a Triumph Bonneville, I sold my last one a month or two ago. Done motorcycling. Too dangerous and wife didn't like them. But in the meantime I enjoyed it and really was never "down."

I've been done with them too, for a while. My wife would not put up with them anyway. Although I have a brother and a bunch of cousins who are seriously into them from racing to long distance touring. My brother rebuilds them and basically has two or three projects going at any one time. I have a cousin who spent 2 weeks in the hospital after actually hitting a bear on a highway in northern California a couple years ago. That's right, a bear on the highway.

If I lived in some remote country location with lots of deserted 2-lane country roads to ride I might feel different. I love riding motorcycles in rural Central America, for example. But in a major metro area with lots of 6 and 8 lane highways and too many distracted people with the cell phones, putting on makeup, etc. It is just no fun and too dangerous.

[Josh]

I invited two friends to church several different times who (lawfully) carried and concealed weapons. I am glad they were welcomed in to attend.

Perhaps we can have a new church rule that only people with pure hearts may attend. You need to look like a perfect Christian and act like one too, even in the concealed areas of the heart.

[Ken]

I invited two friends to church several different times who (lawfully) carried and concealed weapons. I am glad they were welcomed in to attend.

Perhaps we can have a new church rule that only people with pure hearts may attend. You need to look like a perfect Christian and act like one too, even in the concealed areas of the heart.

I expect that in your church (and most other CA churches) the rules for visitors and members are somewhat different.

[RZehr]

For the sake of conversation, and only for conversation, why are people so scared of a properly holstered weapon, kept concealed, by a responsible person? What if an off-duty cop wanted to visit your church? If he was experienced in concealed carry, you most likely wouldn't know if was packing heat.... just sayin.'

I can't speak for J.M's church. But I expect for most it is not a question of "being scared" but rather it is as much (or more) symbolic as practical--like much of Mennonite life with the plain clothing, simple churches, plain lifestyle. Carrying weapons into church, and walking around armed, is just not compatible with a plain, simple, pacifist lifestyle, of putting one's faith in God, and "living quiet in the land."

Amish, for example, wear beards but no mustaches simply for the symbolism because mustaches were once associated with military style in the 19th Century. That actually pretty much faded in real life by the end of WW1 but it is still a symbolic statement. For many decades, Mennonites followed suit with not wearing mustaches. My grandfather would have strictly disapproved of them. Concealed carry and packing weapons in church would fall into the same category in a much more dramatic way.

If we set aside the whole nonresistance factor? First, since it is concealed, we have no idea if the person is actually responsible. Maybe we could compare it to someone carrying a vial of poison, or a bunch of arrows with sharp broadheads to church. Accidents happen. To the person with the weapon, of course he feels fine. But how do we feel if someone we don't hardly know is carrying one of these? We may have no idea what their training is, or what their mental or emotional state is, or what their accident proneness is. Of course if I myself were to carry a vial of poison or pistol, I'd be careful. But that doesn't mean that I want strangers or young people coming into church with a weapon of any kind. It's not hard for me to imagine some young man taking it out to show his friends and having an accidental discharge. I'm not necessarily for people bringing snowboards and skis to church either. This is church, not show and tell.

But I'm personally not concerned about it from a safety standpoint. I'm just saying that the concern is not ungrounded. We use the same building for church and school, and students are allowed to bring guns to school provided they have both their parents and teachers permission, and it is for a specific reason.

[Ken]

For the sake of conversation, and only for conversation, why are people so scared of a properly holstered weapon, kept concealed, by a responsible person? What if an off-duty cop wanted to visit your church? If he was experienced in concealed carry, you most likely wouldn't know if was packing heat.... just sayin.'

I can't speak for J.M's church. But I expect for most it is not a question of "being scared" but rather it is as much (or more) symbolic as practical--like much of Mennonite life with the plain clothing, simple churches, plain lifestyle. Carrying weapons into church, and walking around armed, is just not compatible with a plain, simple, pacifist lifestyle, of putting one's faith in God, and "living quiet in the land."

Amish, for example, wear beards but no mustaches simply for the symbolism because mustaches were once associated with military style in the 19th Century. That actually pretty much faded in real life by the end of WW1 but it is still a symbolic statement. For many decades, Mennonites followed suit with not wearing mustaches. My grandfather would have strictly disapproved of them. Concealed carry and packing weapons in church would fall into the same category in a much more dramatic way.

If we set aside the whole nonresistance factor? First, since it is concealed, we have no idea if the person is actually responsible. Maybe we could compare it to someone carrying a vial of poison, or a bunch of arrows with sharp broadheads to church. Accidents happen. To the person with the weapon, of course he feels fine. But how do we feel if someone we don't hardly know is carrying one of these? We may have no idea what their training is, or what their mental or emotional state is, or what their accident proneness is. Of course if I myself were to carry a vial of poison or pistol, I'd be careful. But that doesn't mean that I want strangers or young people coming into church with a weapon of any kind. It's not hard for me to imagine some young man taking it out to show his friends and having an accidental discharge. I'm not necessarily for people bringing snowboards and skis to church either. This is church, not show and tell.

But I'm personally not concerned about it from a safety standpoint. I'm just saying that the concern is not ungrounded. We use the same building for church and school, and students are allowed to bring guns to school provided they have both their parents and teachers permission, and it is for a specific reason.

Right. I agree. But I also don't think we can set aside the whole "nonresistance factor"

I don't see how someone seeking involvement in a CA church can respect all of the other plain traditions involved with that particular church from dress to worship style to the different roles for men and women. And then openly defying those traditions by insisting on carrying weapons into church. I don't see that as any different from openly defying the church's position on dress, or the role of women in the church. It is really about respect. I'm not going to bring my wife and daughters into a CA church and demand that they be allowed to dress however they choose and be given leadership roles "because what are you afraid of?"

And just because you can sneak a concealed weapon into church doesn't make it right. I'm sure there are clever alcoholics who can sneak a flask of vodka into church and manage to take a secret nip from time to time without harming anyone. That doesn't make it right or behavior that the church would approve of.

If a CA church frowns on or prohibits weapons in church the correct answer is to respect their wishes rather than mocking them for "being afraid". It is a big diverse free world out there and there are plenty of other churches where your weapons will be welcomed or even worshiped.

[Ernie]

This news story reminded me again of this thread. If anyone has any updated info for the poll, please do so.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/03/one-dead- ... as-church/

[Ken]

This news story reminded me again of this thread. If anyone has any updated info for the poll, please do so.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/03/one-dead- ... as-church/

In this story the preacher confronted the intruder with a weapon and then got shot and killed by his own gun.

I'm curious what point you are making by posting it here?

[barnhart]

Maybe Ernie is pointing out that carrying handguns about is inherently dangerous and not just for the "enemies". I stood next to a man in a public place who accidentally shot himself with a concealed weapon, rupturing an artery in his leg. I didn't feel very safe.