Poll: Concealed Weapons among Plain Anabaptists?

[RZehr]

As a non US guy I find it completely bonkers that anyone would carry a gun to church, but that there are anabaptists doing it is absolutely beyond me.

Me too Swiss bro - and I'm a "US guy"

I find it strange as well but then again I am Canadian.

Remember those times when people came into churches and shot people? That is why people bring guns to church for protection.
We shouldn’t carry guns. But if someone thinks they should, a church isn’t a reasonable place to choose not to carry it.

[Ken]

Keep in mind we live in a country where out of town protesters/antifa operatives bussed themselves into Wisconsin and then burned down a Unitarian-Universalist church.

And where out-of-state right wing vigilantes drove over to Wisconsin from Illinois with their firearms to murder protesters just this week.

[Ken]

Me too Swiss bro - and I'm a "US guy"

I find it strange as well but then again I am Canadian.

Remember those times when people came into churches and shot people? That is why people bring guns to church for protection.
We shouldn’t carry guns. But if someone thinks they should, a church isn’t a reasonable place to choose not to carry it.

If you have armed congregants packing concealed weapons in a Mennonite church, I frankly don't know what makes it Mennonite anymore. The costumes?

It's almost as bad as the 'teachers should pack concealed weapons in public schools' stuff that the NRA promotes.

[Josh]

Keep in mind we live in a country where out of town protesters/antifa operatives bussed themselves into Wisconsin and then burned down a Unitarian-Universalist church.

And where out-of-state right wing vigilantes drove over to Wisconsin from Illinois with their firearms to murder protesters just this week.

That's not an accurate description of what happened, and you know it. (I don't want to see anyone get shot, or any buildings get burned down, though.)

The "protesters" involved were carrying guns. When people carry guns, they're liable to end up involved in shootouts. That's why I think as Christians we shouldn't do such things.

[Josh]

If you have armed congregants packing concealed weapons in a Mennonite church, I frankly don't know what makes it Mennonite anymore. The costumes?

It's almost as bad as the 'teachers should pack concealed weapons in public schools' stuff that the NRA promotes.

On the flip side, I'm often puzzled by the "the only people who should carry concealed weapons are criminals" mindset that seems to pervade in places like the U.K. or South Africa, alongside the idea that defending yourself against a violent criminal is somehow a very evil act, but living in an environment where criminals regularly terrorise law abiding people, commit property crime and violent crime, is somehow just supposed to be part of day to day life that we accept.

If the police can't adequately protect people from property crime and violent crime, it seems quite immoral to order the person not to protect themselves, and then to only prosecute people who defend themselves. This is part and parcel different from what a follower of Jesus should do; we are called to be "lambs led to the slaughter". But I don't see why anyone wants to actually promote a society where violent criminals run unchecked.

[Signtist]

There are always members who aren’t following the church’s standards and instructions. I’m not sure why people always feel the need to point this out.

For me it was just a passing memory of an old gentleman I thoroughly enjoyed getting to know over a 10 day period some years ago when we were down in that area doing some roofing.

[RZehr]

I find it strange as well but then again I am Canadian.

Remember those times when people came into churches and shot people? That is why people bring guns to church for protection.
We shouldn’t carry guns. But if someone thinks they should, a church isn’t a reasonable place to choose not to carry it.

If you have armed congregants packing concealed weapons in a Mennonite church, I frankly don't know what makes it Mennonite anymore. The costumes?

It's almost as bad as the 'teachers should pack concealed weapons in public schools' stuff that the NRA promotes.

I don’t agree that it is good sense for people/Mennonites to carry concealed weapons.
I’m just saying that if we take someone who doesn’t believe in nonresistance, who is already carrying, that person wouldn’t believe it makes sense to carry everywhere except church.

[Ernie]

Thus I feel confident saying that Holdemans, as a people, don’t carry guns or chew tobacco, despite an outlier here or there currently getting away with it.

Couldn't we say the same for the rest of the constituencies listed in the poll?

[Heirbyadoption]

If I might speak to the original post, I don't know of anyone in our congregation that has ever or would carry a concealed weapon to services. Frankly, the idea disgusts me, is wholly antithetical for a Kingdom Christian of any stripe, and ought to be confronted where it happens. Having said that, in order to carry a firearm in my vehicle, the great state of PA requires me to have a License To Carry, and it is considered to operate as a CCW as well. I took no oath and was not required to make any statement suggesting I would use weapons in self-defense.

Now, would I ever shoot someone? Absolutely never. Would I dispose of my LTC should my congregation ask it of me? Probably so. On the other hand, I have found firearms, both large and small, to have valid uses at times. With all due respect for Ken's expressed opinion on page 5, I also occasionally share some of Ragpicker's experiences, having lived in hill country in 3 states over the last 2 decades. Frankly, around my current southern PA domicile, deer collisions are regular, bears and deer are in my yard regularly, rattlesnakes and copperheads are also common (the neighbor disposed of a 15 rattle a couple weeks ago that was on his front porch, and yes, I have no problem dispatching snakes, weep on someone else's shoulder), and we even have bobcats (and occasionally something that sounds like the mountain lions we are regularly assured are NOT in the state), and I have several active young children at home. Just a couple more cents...

[Josh]

Thus I feel confident saying that Holdemans, as a people, don’t carry guns or chew tobacco, despite an outlier here or there currently getting away with it.

Couldn't we say the same for the rest of the constituencies listed in the poll?

I don't know. In the case of the constituencies where I ticked the box, I based it upon this information:

1. A member in good standing carries a firearm and holds a permit to carry such a firearm in a concealed fashion.

2. He is fairly public / open about this (for example, his mother told me and she defended him doing so in front of an audience of other conservative Mennonites).

3. No church discipline / no action is taken by him.

4. Or, the person doing so is in leadership themselves, and no action is taken by their congregation about it.

It's somewhat analogous to Beachys who don't listen to the radio but nonetheless have radios in their cars. It would not be accurate to say that "Beachys remove the radios from their cars", because there are plenty examples of members in good standing with radios in their cars, they are quite open about it, and leadership does nothing, or also has radios in their cars. (Note: I'm not saying it's wrong to have a radio in their car. Just saying that 50 years ago it would have been unthinkable for a Beachy to have a radio in their car.)