Poll: Concealed Weapons among Plain Anabaptists?

[Josh]

My own church has a small church in the Sugar Hill part of NYC, which used to be somewhat high crime but as of late has become more gentrified. With that said, there have been a number of high profile incidents of people getting shot and killed in recent times.

We have had a number of people join that congregation, but most of them have ended up moving away. A handful of stuck around.

My understanding is that the Pilgrim congregation in Bronx has had the same experience.

When people join the Mennonite community, they find out about all kinds of amazing job opportunities along with affordable land and housing. So someone can move to a place like Belleville, own their own home, even start their own business, and probably not even have to work as hard. Working-class pay can be better in a place like Belleville than it is in NYC. (You can read Boursqiuot's book A Resident Alien in Search of a Home to learn more about one of these particular stories.)

I myself grew up in a city environment both in Australia and when we migrated to America. But most of us children have ended up moving to more rural locations - they are safer, cheaper, better land, and result in no fewer job and business opportunities.

[Ken]

Is the purpose of that particular church to be a mission to the poorest so-called "unchurched" parts of inner-city Baltimore (if such a thing exists in the US anymore). Or is the purpose to be a home congregation for existing Mennonites who themselves already live and work in Baltimore? I think it is more the latter. In which case it makes sense to put the church close to where a majority of the congregation live and work.

The purpose of the Hampden congregation was to be a good base for a mission to the people of the city of Baltimore. Before the congregation was established, "existing Mennonites who themselves already live and work in Baltimore" did not exist (at least for conservative Mennonites).

Generally speaking, I'm not sure why would want to locate their church building in a place with very high property crime, although the congregation in York did do that. Doing so means you have to make sure you have people occupying your houses basically 24/7 and be ready for your cars to get stolen on a rather regular basis. The congregation in York has adapted to this (and I felt very comfortable and at home there, but then again I grew up around such things are fairly comfortable with that).

Amongst other things, there was an act of arson on the block the congregation in York is. The leadership at the school and church shared information about the arsonist with law enforcement. In retaliation for this, one of the suspects tried to shoot some young people who were visiting. A girl ended up with a few holes in her cape dress.

I think there should be a certain amount of respect for the fact many conservative Mennonites prefer not to live in an environment where buildings regularly get burned down, and cooperating with the police and fire departments to investigate arson results in people getting shot.

No one does. That doesn't make conservative Mennos unique or cowardly. No one wants to live in those neighborhoods. When I taught in Waco on the more affluent side of town, most of my Black students were from families who did everything they could to get their kids out of the more ragged parts of north Waco and into the "better" schools on the cities south side.

There were some white "urban pioneer" type families and business owners who would deliberately move to the so-called worst neighborhoods to try to develop and revitalize them. Some were religious. Some were just urban do-gooders. And some were real estate speculators. I expect it is the same everywhere. I lived and worked in DC from 1994-1995 in what was a fairly rough and sketchy neighborhood around 14 and Corcoran. With occasional mugging and such on the street. 30 years later it now looks like this: https://goo.gl/maps/m1AMMeF6h1PFAXyW8

[Ambassador]

Twinpines, I think you do not know York or the church there. As of December 2019, York had 46% higher crime than the national average. The church there is in a section of the city that is considered most violent. I was going to link sources but couldn't figure out how. Not that it makes alot of difference as far as how you should live out the Christian life, but just some facts.
Btw, I wish too more Christian's were willing to live in inner cities.

There are plenty of Christians living in the inner cities. They just tend not to be Mennonites.

For example: https://www.abyssinian.org/

Thanks for that correction Ken, you are correct.

[Ken]

My own church has a small church in the Sugar Hill part of NYC, which used to be somewhat high crime but as of late has become more gentrified. With that said, there have been a number of high profile incidents of people getting shot and killed in recent times.

We have had a number of people join that congregation, but most of them have ended up moving away. A handful of stuck around.

My understanding is that the Pilgrim congregation in Bronx has had the same experience.

When people join the Mennonite community, they find out about all kinds of amazing job opportunities along with affordable land and housing. So someone can move to a place like Belleville, own their own home, even start their own business, and probably not even have to work as hard. Working-class pay can be better in a place like Belleville than it is in NYC. (You can read Boursqiuot's book A Resident Alien in Search of a Home to learn more about one of these particular stories.)

I myself grew up in a city environment both in Australia and when we migrated to America. But most of us children have ended up moving to more rural locations - they are safer, cheaper, better land, and result in no fewer job and business opportunities.

Funny because I have a TON of family in the Belleville area and many have moved away for job opportunities elsewhere. Belleville used to have a New Holland assembly plant but that closed long ago and there isn't much left other than agriculture and small shops. Even the IGA closed and all that is left for groceries is the Dollar General or small Amish stores. You have to drive to Lewistown for groceries. I have a couple of cousins who are nurses and would commute to the big hospital in Danville until they tired of that winter commute and moved to larger cities. One who is a pilot and tried to make it work for a long time until he finally gave up and relocated closer to Philly. The cousins who have taken over the three family dairy farms in the area are still around but most of the others who aren't farming have moved on to larger towns. But the older retired folks still live in Belleville.

[Ernie]

Even the IGA closed and all that is left for groceries is the Dollar General or small Amish stores.

They've got a SharpShopper now!

[Josh]

No one does. That doesn't make conservative Mennos unique or cowardly. No one wants to live in those neighborhoods. When I taught in Waco on the more affluent side of town, most of my Black students were from families who did everything they could to get their kids out of the more ragged parts of north Waco and into the "better" schools on the cities south side.

I actually really liked York and almost moved there. One of the members at the congregation there decided to stay in the community and is a schoolteacher there now.

There were some white "urban pioneer" type families and business owners who would deliberately move to the so-called worst neighborhoods to try to develop and revitalize them. Some were religious. Some were just urban do-gooders. And some were real estate speculators. I expect it is the same everywhere. I lived and worked in DC from 1994-1995 in what was a fairly rough and sketchy neighborhood around 14 and Corcoran. With occasional mugging and such on the street. 30 years later it now looks like this: https://goo.gl/maps/m1AMMeF6h1PFAXyW8

Yeah, I lived and worked in Alexandria in 2001 and my friends and I had the spots in DC we liked to go. Basically all gone now, although they're a lot "prettier" and "safer" (although I suspect the violence has just been reshuffled to other areas).

[Josh]

Incidentally, I am part of a Mennonite church where nobody carries concealed guns, nobody owns military-styled weapons, nobody owns handguns

Or at least nobody is supposed to. I knew one old boy down in Walnut Hill, FL that seemed to have missed that memo. But he figured his wife's conscience was bothering him enough he allowed he's maybe get rid of it one day.

There are always members who aren’t following the church’s standards and instructions. I’m not sure why people always feel the need to point this out.

For example, I’m part of a Mennonite Church where our members are expected not to drink alcohol, get drunk, or chew tobacco. Sometimes somebody goes and does this anyway. If they are crafty, they could hide it for many years.

Thus I feel confident saying that Holdemans, as a people, don’t carry guns or chew tobacco, despite an outlier here or there currently getting away with it.

[Josh]

Funny because I have a TON of family in the Belleville area and many have moved away for job opportunities elsewhere. Belleville used to have a New Holland assembly plant but that closed long ago and there isn't much left other than agriculture and small shops. Even the IGA closed and all that is left for groceries is the Dollar General or small Amish stores. You have to drive to Lewistown for groceries. I have a couple of cousins who are nurses and would commute to the big hospital in Danville until they tired of that winter commute and moved to larger cities. One who is a pilot and tried to make it work for a long time until he finally gave up and relocated closer to Philly. The cousins who have taken over the three family dairy farms in the area are still around but most of the others who aren't farming have moved on to larger towns. But the older retired folks still live in Belleville.

The guy in question runs some kind of tire shop / painting operation in Belleville. He thinks it's great, much better than whatever jobs he had in NYC before he moved. Plus his wife's family is there and Belleville seems to be notorious for rather large extended family networks, which is the kind of family networks he was used to, being from Haiti and all.

It's true that there aren't a lot of reliable wage type of jobs, but it's a great place for someone who wants to farm or open their own business and find an affordable house. Personally, I have next to no interest in living in Belleville.

[appleman2006]

As a non US guy I find it completely bonkers that anyone would carry a gun to church, but that there are anabaptists doing it is absolutely beyond me.

Me too Swiss bro - and I'm a "US guy"

I find it strange as well but then again I am Canadian.

[Josh]

Keep in mind we live in a country where out of town protesters/antifa operatives bussed themselves into Wisconsin and then burned down a Unitarian-Universalist church.