Have Christians unintentionally caused abortions?

[ABC 123]

Sorry, but being a kid with a dad who doesn’t want you is inherently shameful and always will be. This cannot be changed.

A healthy society has dealt with this by adoption.

Trying to remove the “stigma” of unwed mothers just means you get a lot more unwed mothers and a lot more social dysfunction.

Incidentally, a healthy society puts a lot of shame and stigma on men who don’t raise their children. An old Baptist preacher told me about how in the old days, if a guy kept messing around with a girl, they’d eventually just take him behind the work shed after church and give him a thorough beating with the garden hose.

I know a situation where the brothers would rape the sisters repeatedly. Horrifically. One sister was stripped of all sense of dignity, ran around, got pregnant. She was properly shamed and ostracised. People let her know what filth she was. She carries that to this day. The parents gave her baby up for adoption.

Oh, she left the Amish for her own mental health. So many busy body do gooders letting her know how wicked she was just was not helping.

The brothers all are faithful members of the Amish church in good standing.

[Josh]

Sorry, but being a kid with a dad who doesn’t want you is inherently shameful and always will be. This cannot be changed.

A healthy society has dealt with this by adoption.

Trying to remove the “stigma” of unwed mothers just means you get a lot more unwed mothers and a lot more social dysfunction.

Incidentally, a healthy society puts a lot of shame and stigma on men who don’t raise their children. An old Baptist preacher told me about how in the old days, if a guy kept messing around with a girl, they’d eventually just take him behind the work shed after church and give him a thorough beating with the garden hose.

I know a situation where the brothers would rape the sisters repeatedly. Horrifically. One sister was stripped of all sense of dignity, ran around, got pregnant. She was properly shamed and ostracised. People let her know what filth she was. She carries that to this day. The parents gave her baby up for adoption.

Oh, she left the Amish for her own mental health. So many busy body do gooders letting her know how wicked she was just was not helping.

The brothers all are faithful members of the Amish church in good standing.

I’m not sure what you expect me to do about this.

Like it or not, that out of wedlock pregnancy was still shameful and will be in any remotely healthy society.

[ABC 123]

You sound like you would like to be one to shovel on the shame for good measure. Let them know their place.

Healthy marriages, 2 parent families. It is God's blueprint for living. Totally support that. We should and do preach that in our pulpits, teach that in our circles.

Grace for those who fell short of the mark is not an endorsement of bad behavior. Compassion for the bruised and battered is showing God's love.

[ABC 123]

My last comment on this. I have it on fairly good authority that there are CA fathers driving their daughters to abortion clinics. They are trying to do them a favor to preserve their daughters' standing in the community. What the rest don't know won't hurt.

In these cases there is a cultural drive to not have this blot on their daughters if they want them to stay CA. It isn't much different than well to do parents trying to keep their kids criminal records sealed so they have a chance at a good college, a good jo, a good life. Different cultures, different focus.

[Josh]

My last comment on this. I have it on fairly good authority that there are CA fathers driving their daughters to abortion clinics. They are trying to do them a favor to preserve their daughters' standing in the community. What the rest don't know won't hurt.

In these cases there is a cultural drive to not have this blot on their daughters if they want them to stay CA. It isn't much different than well to do parents trying to keep their kids criminal records sealed so they have a chance at a good college, a good jo, a good life. Different cultures, different focus.

I’m also aware of this, dating back to when I was pro-abortion and volunteered for such organisations (pre 2014). The plain people were well known as frequent customers.

It’s obviously wrong and sinful to get abortions. People who do this to maintain their standing in the community are, obviously, not people who are living in Jesus’ kingdom and following him. As Christians, we accept shame and don’t lie about it.

[Josh]

You sound like you would like to be one to shovel on the shame for good measure. Let them know their place.

Healthy marriages, 2 parent families. It is God's blueprint for living. Totally support that. We should and do preach that in our pulpits, teach that in our circles.

Grace for those who fell short of the mark is not an endorsement of bad behavior. Compassion for the bruised and battered is showing God's love.

Compassion doesn’t take the shame away.

I don’t talk a lot about myself personally on MN, partially out of respect for the privacy of other people I work with, but let’s just say that I take on my fair share of helping and befriending children and mothers in out of wedlock situations.

No amount of compassion can ever take the shame away. Better to accept it and understand it is reality. A son of a single mother will, simply put, misbehave more. Other people will hold such a person at a distance.

A single mother always needs more help, and usually comes up rather short on helping others. Help moving, help with legal bills with a recalcitrant ex boyfriend or husband who doesn’t want to pay child support, help with house repairs. Help watching the kids. They drain a lot of resources and don’t give much in return.

Doesn’t mean I won’t help but the shame is still there. The worst thing is to not talk about it or pretend it can go away.

(And, yeah, part of me would prefer the old Baptist country church method with the rubber hose.)

[Aurien]

Some of the comments on this thread are horrifying!

Chris, thank you for your interest in helping single mothers, and thank you for your desire to not perpetually shame them.

To the others who have spoken up about the self-righteous, condemning comments on this thread, thank you as well.

[ABC 123]

Some of the comments on this thread are horrifying!

Chris, thank you for your interest in helping single mothers, and thank you for your desire to not perpetually shame them.

To the others who have spoken up about the self-righteous, condemning comments on this thread, thank you as well.

I used too much sarcasm, I think. I am appalled by some of the comments on this topic as well.

[Chris]

To perpetually judge is against every grain of Christianity that I know of. I certainly don't advocate that fornication is okay.

Can't a single mother be "Free Indeed"?

This means with no mark, without blemish, without judgment. What are we so perfect? We never lusted, said bad words, or any of the like? Sin is sin.

The single mother did the sin of fornication. When she repents, I believe it is sick to continually hear mumbles of "she has a child out of wedlock" at church. It's disgusting to hear. I believe these "pressures" caused by our own circles do bump the numbers of abortions up. How could they not?

Here's the scoop... Would the constant reminder of "abortion" be there? She could "do the hard thing, abort", and then come to church, repent (if anybody knew), and guess what.... It gets dropped more and more as time marches on.

The big bad "CHILD OUT OF WEDLOCK", remains.... reminds... is there... to her shame always. It's awful. The woman caught in the act of adultery very well could have conceived from that act.

Did Jesus condemn her (even if she got pregnant)? What would the whispers of our churches be like?

[Josh]

The single mother did the sin of fornication. When she repents,

That's a big "if", but yes, when someone repents, they should know they have both Christ's forgiveness and also the church's forgiveness.

Of course, repentance means turning away from our wicked ways. So that means one would shift from a lifestyle of "getting", to a lifestyle of figuring out how to serve others, and being open to input from others about spiritual problems one might have.

I believe it is sick to continually hear mumbles of "she has a child out of wedlock" at church. It's disgusting to hear. I believe these "pressures" caused by our own circles do bump the numbers of abortions up. How could they not?

Where on earth do you go to church where you constantly hear this? I certainly don't here this at my church. There's no need to - it's obvious who doesn't have a dad who wants to be with them.

Here's the scoop... Would the constant reminder of "abortion" be there? She could "do the hard thing, abort", and then come to church, repent (if anybody knew), and guess what.... It gets dropped more and more as time marches on.

As a person who knows people who've had children out of wedlock and who knows people who've had abortions, the scar of abortion (for the genuinely converted Christian) seems to be far, far graver.

The big bad "CHILD OUT OF WEDLOCK", remains.... reminds... is there... to her shame always. It's awful. The woman caught in the act of adultery very well could have conceived from that act.

Did Jesus condemn her (even if she got pregnant)? What would the whispers of our churches be like?

I don't really get what you're chasing after. Do you think our churches should promote single motherhood? Should they start saying having children out of wedlock is a good thing?

It's not, and the fruits of it are negative. We can't change that. The best advice for any single mother is to figure out how to turn away from a lifestyle of serving self, and instead learn how to serve others.