Culture, has it become a burden and stumbling block.

[Lonny90]

My line of thought in regards to the op has to do with exploring if there is any benefit to keeping standards, considering how hard it makes it for people wanting to be kingdom minded to join their local anabaptist congregation.

[Ernie]

Well, according to Stephen Scott's book, the philosophy behind fundamental-conservative groups like BMA (and KMF) is that they won't require a standard unless they can somehow point to at least one Bible verse supporting it. People in BMA (and similar Charity type of groups) tend to think they don't have "extra-biblical" standards.

So, if I follow, because the Bible doesn't specifically mention owning a TV, its considered open game? Or am I being too literal?

Correct. People in BMA or similar types of Charity groups will own TVs and watch them, watch DVDs/movies, etc.

But then people like Finny Kuruvilla take stands against cable TV and call it a biblical standard because we should not set anything evil before our eyes and the ads on cable TV are often geared towards lust, covetousness, etc.
Finny would say that requiring suspenders is an extra-biblical standard. I understand that there is a difference between the two but I do not think the line between extra-biblical and biblical standards is as clear as what Finny makes it out to be.
There are those who wear suspenders as an application of Romans 12:1,2. And while I think there are better applications of these verses, I give credit to folks like Dan Z who wears suspenders for a reason similar to this.

[Ernie]

If you random conservative reading this hate tv for good reason, I bless you for that, cool for you. My question, why do you need me or anyone else to hate tv as much as you? To the point of putting it on paper and making others affirm to at least pretend they hate it, why?

I hate the advertisements and other things that are a spiritual detriment. I don't hate the machine. I used to ask youth at a moderate-conservative Bible school, "How many of you have watched more than one movie in the last year that was a spiritual detriment?" (I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt since I have watched a movie with others only to realize part way through that I should have stepped out of the room.) A large percentage would raise their hands. I asked them how many movies they need to watch until the realize that the movies their friends are watching are not going to help them spiritually.

The other think I would say to this is that some people agree to certain disciplines (not watching TV or questionable movies) in order to make the best possible soil in which to grow their spiritual life. There is no need to pretendto hate it. Every plain Anabaptist church that I know makes membership voluntary. If someone doesn't want to voluntary take on the disciplines required to join the Order, they are free to join an Order that requires the disciplines they do want to voluntarily submit to.

[Josh]

My line of thought in regards to the op has to do with exploring if there is any benefit to keeping standards, considering how hard it makes it for people wanting to be kingdom minded to join their local anabaptist congregation.

Is there a benefit to having a standard of "we don't inject heroin"? I think there is, even though no Bible verse says "don't inject heroin".

I think we should keep in mind the weaker brother; if we have an environment where we freely use alcohol, drugs, and tobacco, that's not an environment that is uplifting to the Christian brother who is an alcoholic, a recovering drug addict, or has lung cancer or COPD from tobacco smoking.

[Ernie]

My line of thought in regards to the op has to do with exploring if there is any benefit to keeping standards, considering how hard it makes it for people wanting to be kingdom minded to join their local anabaptist congregation.

Raising a family in a church with few standards does make it difficult for the children. There are pros and cons to having all the children in a community operate according to different values and standards. Most families can handle some diversity but when some children are playing Dungeons and Dragons and other children in the church are not allowed to canoe on Sunday, it does make it a challenge to work together as a community. In such churches people tend to get together for church on Sunday and live separate lives the rest of the week.

[Mountain Merle]

Here's a good guide: "Whatever things are honorable, right, pure, lovely, admirable....think on these things". (an excerpt from Phil. 4:8) The beauty of using the Bible as your guide is that it transcends time, culture and technology. In other words, you don't have to be changing your "standards" to address the radio, the TV, the internet, social media, etc. If we really followed that verse, wouldn't that keep us in a good place?? Good grief, come to think about it, if you go by those standards, MennoNet is looking a little bit iffy!

Of course, most Christians don't agree at all on how to apply that verse. I haven't met many Christians who think what think about is dishonourable, wrong, impure, unlovely, and unadmirable; yet there is wide variety from one group whose youth watch whatever new R rated movie comes out to another group where they are sceptical one should even be watching instructional videos on YouTube.

I totally agree that "most Christians don't agree". But I still think most of the problems come from trying to draw lines in the sand to keep convictionless people corralled instead of focusing on scripture. In other words, if we have the mindset of doing whatever is "allowed", where is personal conviction? It makes no sense for a person to insist that he can do something because it is "allowed"; we are called to a higher standard. The truth is that there is good to be found in new technology and there is an abundance of impure and unlovely things as well. Sure, Christians won't agree on how to apply the verse, but what better guide do we have?

[Ernie]

Here are most of my thoughts on churches and standards.

https://www.churchplantersforum.org/wp- ... st-Eby.pdf

[joshuabgood]

Here are most of my thoughts on churches and standards.

https://www.churchplantersforum.org/wp- ... st-Eby.pdf

Thanks for posting this...I really enjoyed reading it. Very insightful analysis. (I also really enjoyed Dreher's book a few years ago.)

[Lonny90]

Here are most of my thoughts on churches and standards.

https://www.churchplantersforum.org/wp- ... st-Eby.pdf

So your Ernest Eby, I was at a guy's camp you hosted back in 2010, in Arkansas. Good memories.

[twinpines]

So, I grew up Beachy, and am still anabaptist in the sense that I don't agree with the Evangelicals enough to join. Here's a question, if Amy is very shallow, and she is living a proper prim modest Mennonite life because her bishop has all her standards laid out for her and he is meaner than God is this good? We both know that if she one day left, she would literally transform almost overnight into some strain of the BMA's referenced earlier. So, some might say her bishop is good, but I would have another word for Amy living by the bishop instead of by her own convictions. My world for it would be hypocrisy. If you random conservative reading this hate tv for good reason, I bless you for that, cool for you. My question, why do you need me or anyone else to hate tv as much as you? To the point of putting it on paper and making others affirm to at least pretend they hate it, why?

I do wonder how many people follow the rules but their hearts are dark. Some evangelical pastors like Paul Washer will readily admit that the bulk of evangelicals are on their way to hell and do not have regenerated hearts. Paul washer would say that number is over 90%. It might be less obvious in a strict Mennonite church who those are since everyone conforms to the standards but I suspect most of their churches also have at least some members that are lost. I met one Mennonite pastor on the mission field who felt the majority of those in the KMF circles were not saved. He mentioned the bulk of the memship was more worried about their small business and big house then the kingdom of God.