Culture, has it become a burden and stumbling block.

[Aaron]

So how does a leader, especially a young leader who may immediately be labeled rebellious, young and restless, results-driven, begin to speak to the establishment, the hierarchy, about this? Not to destroy, but to build up the church from the inside, but often mistaken for "going liberal" or "wanting freedom".

Do you believe Jesus spoke the the religious leaders to strengthen the 'establishment', 'the hierarchy' , at all ? I don't think so. Looking for all and any who seek Him and who seek the truth, it is more difficult when the 'establishment' and 'the hierarchy' are opposed ... .... .... .... ... Jesus' Way as outlined in all Scripture....

[Ken]

Stumbling block to what? Evangelism or growth?

If conservative Mennonite groups want to maintain very 16th century Euro-centric costume and traditions, that's fine. There is a huge diversity of culture and religion in this country and across the world and there should be room for everyone.

On the other hand, if conservative Mennonite groups want to appeal to an increasingly ethnically and racially diverse country and global world they may wish to examine how much of their traditions are cultural vs biblical. But I figure that is for them to decide. I have no interest in trying to change anyone or any group.

[Ambassador]

Josh, there is a huge difference between going liberal and putting cultural stumbling blocks in the path of sincere seekers and young disciples.
I agree with your advice to look what has happened to other churches.

If you're in a church or a mission board that has these standards, you have three choices:

#1. Submit to these standards, and realise that sincere seekers have much, much more difficult things to face than new clothing styles. I'm a seeker and I'm friends with seekers. Believe me, it is the least of our concerns, although some things like see-through kapps can be a bit frustrating to us. But other things are more important.

#2. Plead and make a case to change these standards. Many mission boards do just that. In a moderately conservative or fundamental conservative church, there is very wide latitude for this. Perhaps look for a different mission board. Even if you're from a Mid-West type of church, there is an opportunity to serve with an institution like DNI and get away with it. When I was at a Mid-West church, we regularly sent donations to a couple with DNI where the couple's wife wore jean skirts in the mission field. I don't recall anyone even ever talking about it.

#3. Leave, and go to a different organisation. If one's heart is sincere, one can leave their more conservative church and go to a less-conservative church - but beware of the compromises one must make. You might find yourself needing to accept quite worldly practices in others that formerly would have offended you. It may affect the future culture your children grow up in, or even how much your children and your family are accepted.

A very good book to read on this topic is A Gentle Wind of God, which talks about the Lancaster Mennonite Conference faced these exact issues in the 20th century. Something to consider is that the reason the splits to Eastern (and Pilgrim), Mid-Atlantic, Keystone, and BMA exist at all is essentially because of the way these changes happened in the Lancaster Conference. So if these changes are worth doing now, they were worth doing back then, and I would suggest uniting one's self with the Lancaster Conference, instead of trying to make your little Mennonite group replicate what Lancaster did in the 1970s.

You are completely missing my heart cry Josh. Listen to Ernest Eby's message on the 2014 church planters forum and retreat. No Greater Burden. If someone could link that here it would be great.

[natashaasbj]

Nah.... I have seen some revivalist movements during my Christianity... They all start with strong desire to spread the Gospel and afterwhile when novelty wears off, they "establish" some culture, the way doing things, styles of clothes, styles of houses and interests.... It always the same....
At present I am finding myself in a very interesting church... They are Old German Baptists New Conference.... And they make it a point to preserve their culture and heritage.... But they ALSO live the Jesus teaching... They are a smaller outreach church. They make it a point not to live for themselves, but generously spend their lives on helping Community around them in all kinds of ways. They also resolved to be accountable to each other and encourage each other to holy living and spiritual growth... Though they do not live "communally" like Hutterites, they actively participate in each others lives quite literally, like one true family... I see it first hand... Some people tried to change them, but they just say that this is what we are agreeing on and they want to keep culture... I personally judged them in my thoughts , but later grew to understand their perspective... I haven't seen many people who live for Christ like them...
So my point is... there is reason why we have so many options in the Body of Christ. I think the main thing is learn to tolerate differences and to be busy with growing our own fruit for Christ,and to be about doing good...
By the way, some people came to their church from the world (former atheists) and truly feel at home in the culture... Some stuck here for a while , but chose to go to Charity type church, or moved to a different state...

[DrWojo]

Worship is no longer worship when it reflects the culture around us more than the Christ within us. - A.W. Tozer

[MaxPC]

What an interesting thread! Per the procedure for change, respectful questions and helpful dialogue that is based on the Bible is the route I have found most successful.

Regarding those ladies of African descent and their headcoverings, I asked my wife about this. She feels that those who actually wear these things should be queried since they are the ones who live and work in the clothing. She has given me a few ideas about African nuns/sisters so I did a search. Here are a few photos of nuns/sisters and how they cover and dress. Notice how some of the religious habits look like cape dresses of the various Anabaptist groups. All wear veils. Veiling is common in Africa even among those who are not part of a religious group. The African Sisters are quite fond of their habits. They appreciate the distinctive nature of consecration to Jesus because they too, like we do, live in a secular culture that allows witchcraft and all manner of sin.

Hopefully this is of help to your concerns.

[Aaron]

When did Menno* start 'fraternizing' with the worldly religions ?

[Soloist]

When did Menno* start 'fraternizing' with the worldly religions ?

When he zealously desired to convert them.

[Aaron]

What did /does/ Jesus say in Scripture about fraternizing with anyone who brings a false gospel ? To convert them? (hint: no)

[Soloist]

What did /does/ Jesus say in Scripture about fraternizing with anyone who brings a false gospel ? To convert them? (hint: no)

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2 Thessalonians 3: 14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Seems to me you are missing something and have condemned on first glance. Be careful in your zeal especially if you are accountable to no man but only your own understanding of Christ.

Your statement begs the question though, why are you still here? Might it be you and I see eye to eye more than you think?