Culture, has it become a burden and stumbling block.

[Ambassador]

Mennonitism is a culture. Cultures are beautiful. Cultures can be ugly. I'm talking of good culture where it does not contradict scripture. Is it ok that we have put culture into our standards? Is it ok that we ask "them" to join our culture?
Veiling - white caps and flowing veils work fine for white, German background mennonite. Not so well for African-Americans.
Cape dress - works fine for us, not so well for a christian lady in Grenada where few sew and she can't just run to Lancaster.
Prayer in meetings - we pray in an orderly, one at a time fashion. In Asia, it's often everyone praying at once.
And a hundred others, some standards, some just unwritten expectations.
How can we speak to the "system " about changing while still being humble?
How can we get through the "church politics" without being a rebel and anti-authority?
I believe most of us want to actually make disciples effectively, but we are so comfortable in the mennonite "system" that we hardly even see it.
Can it change peacefully?
How can a church leader work through this with other leaders that don't see the issue, and may even be going in the opposite direction of more guidelines and more control?
Lots of questions. Please discuss.

[Ambassador]

BTW, I am not interested in a bunch of anti-mennonite rhetoric. This is not a place to air all your grievances about how the mennonites are horrible people. Where it applies to the questions, we can share areas of concern, but only as a way to help us think of solutions. We will not change the church in a good way by anger, gripes, and bad attitudes.
What I'm interested in is how can those of us that are committed to our churches help our churches grow into diverse, welcoming churches, not only to other anabaptists, but all that are seeking, whether they are black, white, Asian, city, or hillbilly. There will be great diversity around the throne of God. No immodesty, no sin, no throwing away of biblical principles, but great diversity.

[Aaron]

Culture, like the flesh, is sinful. To be Redeemed is rare and hard to find.

[Josh]

“ Veiling - white caps and flowing veils work fine for white, German background mennonite. Not so well for African-Americans.”

I don’t know why people say this. I go to church with African-Americans who wear kapps just like everyone else. In Haiti they wear veils and it seems to work just fine.

[steve-in-kville]

I truly feel that pride gets in the way, on many different levels. God can only work in a person (organization?) when there is true humility.

[ragpicker]

“ Veiling - white caps and flowing veils work fine for white, German background mennonite. Not so well for African-Americans.”

I don’t know why people say this. I go to church with African-Americans who wear kapps just like everyone else. In Haiti they wear veils and it seems to work just fine.

I have a handful of black female relatives that are having to wear the Nationwide style cap, and it looks goofy and weird. Such a disgrace to the beautiful young ladies. Maybe the Holdeman style is less cartoonish and disrespectful.

[Josh]

“ Veiling - white caps and flowing veils work fine for white, German background mennonite. Not so well for African-Americans.”

I don’t know why people say this. I go to church with African-Americans who wear kapps just like everyone else. In Haiti they wear veils and it seems to work just fine.

I have a handful of black female relatives that are having to wear the Nationwide style cap, and it looks goofy and weird. Such a disgrace to the beautiful young ladies. Maybe the Holdeman style is less cartoonish and disrespectful.

This leaves the question open of if the white see through kapp looks goofy and weird on white women. My perspective is that virtually every seeker I’ve talked to about it thinks it does.

[Ambassador]

If an old tribal lady, that still dressed in traditional clothing that includes a colorful head scarf that fully covers, would begin attending our church and ask to join, would we make her change to a white kapp or white flowing veil? I believe most moderate and conservative churches (KMF, EPMC, mid-Atlantic, pilgrim) would. Do we see that as a problem?

[ragpicker]

“ Veiling - white caps and flowing veils work fine for white, German background mennonite. Not so well for African-Americans.”

I don’t know why people say this. I go to church with African-Americans who wear kapps just like everyone else. In Haiti they wear veils and it seems to work just fine.

I have a handful of black female relatives that are having to wear the Nationwide style cap, and it looks goofy and weird. Such a disgrace to the beautiful young ladies. Maybe the Holdeman style is less cartoonish and disrespectful.

This leaves the question open of if the white see through kapp looks goofy and weird on white women. My perspective is that virtually every seeker I’ve talked to about it thinks it does.

That's a valid point and I concur. I just spent time around these black relatives of mine a few weeks ago and was appalled at the violation of their person hood by forcing them into this model. I don't criticize their parents. I point my finger at their culture. But how to fix it???

[Josh]

If an old tribal lady, that still dressed in traditional clothing that includes a colorful head scarf that fully covers, would begin attending our church and ask to join, would we make her change to a white kapp or white flowing veil? I believe most moderate and conservative churches (KMF, EPMC, mid-Atlantic, pilgrim) would. Do we see that as a problem?

In a mission setting, the culture of the national church tends to be determined by the first few people who join it. So, for example, in Africa the Holdemans adopted blue coloured veils, because of negative associations with black fabric and death or witchcraft.

People in Haiti tend to make their own clothes or be very good seamstresses and the dress patterns there are somewhat different than in North America.

(I have an opinion that white fabric in general is impractical and should be avoided, but that’s a different topic.)