Bunny Trails

[Soloist]

Okay… so I don’t know how it actually works in the DOD schools but I can absolutely assure you that the segregation is factual. Rank is a serious factor in that.
Generally, speaking, one up, one down for social contact.
Enlisted are in one category, an officer are in another.
Child of an officer is a lot less likely to play or hang out outside of school with the child of enlisted and vice versa.
They associate in different locations. They hang out with different people. They’re completely different income brackets…

Secondly, crime is not actually handled the same for everybody. It has a great deal to do with who you know or who you’ve buddied up to.
Our petty officer (enlisted) who was in a position of authority in my clinic, stole TVs from the military no less… he was removed from leadership position, and that was it.
I can guarantee you if anyone did not have those connections they’d be looking at the very least one rank reduction if not two, suspension without pay for three months. And if you had a CO (or chief) who really didn’t like you… you could be looking at confinement on bread and water for up to three weeks.

There is a lot of corruption in the military and anyone who believes otherwise hasn’t seen the inside.

[Ken]

Okay… so I don’t know how it actually works in the DOD schools but I can absolutely assure you that the segregation is factual. Rank is a serious factor in that.
Generally, speaking, one up, one down for social contact.
Enlisted are in one category, an officer are in another.
Child of an officer is a lot less likely to play or hang out outside of school with the child of enlisted and vice versa.
They associate in different locations. They hang out with different people. They’re completely different income brackets…

Secondly, crime is not actually handled the same for everybody. It has a great deal to do with who you know or who you’ve buddied up to.
Our petty officer (enlisted) who was in a position of authority in my clinic, stole TVs from the military no less… he was removed from leadership position, and that was it.
I can guarantee you if anyone did not have those connections they’d be looking at the very least one rank reduction if not two, suspension without pay for three months. And if you had a CO (or chief) who really didn’t like you… you could be looking at confinement on bread and water for up to three weeks.

There is a lot of corruption in the military and anyone who believes otherwise hasn’t seen the inside.

Yes, housing is segregated by rank in the military. No one disputes that. Officers get better housing than enlisted and nicer housing is a privilege of rank. But there is only one set of schools on military bases. There are not separate schools for the children of officers and the children of enlisted. Can military personnel live off base and put their kids in ordinary public or private schools? Sure. Some do. Bases are not prisons. But none of that answers the question of why DOD schools are more successful on average in closing performance gaps for poor and minority students compared to civilian schools on the outside. I think it is an interesting question because the answers don't necessarily align along traditional liberal/conservative lines when it comes to race.

[Soloist]

Yes, housing is segregated by rank in the military. No one disputes that. Officers get better housing than enlisted and nicer housing is a privilege of rank. But there is only one set of schools on military bases. There are not separate schools for the children of officers and the children of enlisted. Can military personnel live off base and put their kids in ordinary public or private schools? Sure.

I never mentioned housing. I was pointing out the social impact. you can attend church with an officer, but you cannot socialize with that officer.
Likewise, the children are impacted.

[Ken]

Yes, housing is segregated by rank in the military. No one disputes that. Officers get better housing than enlisted and nicer housing is a privilege of rank. But there is only one set of schools on military bases. There are not separate schools for the children of officers and the children of enlisted. Can military personnel live off base and put their kids in ordinary public or private schools? Sure.

I never mentioned housing. I was pointing out the social impact. you can attend church with an officer, but you cannot socialize with that officer.
Likewise, the children are impacted.

Apparently it doesn't impact the children enough to create gaps in educational outcomes unlike the situation in the civilian world. And DOD schools themselves are not segregated by wealth unlike public schools in most of the rest of the country.

[Soloist]

Apparently it doesn't impact the children enough to create gaps in educational outcomes unlike the situation in the civilian world. And DOD schools themselves are not segregated by wealth unlike public schools in most of the rest of the country.

I wasn’t commenting at all about the DOD schools and whether they’re better or not. I was mostly responding to temporal. And your assertion about segregation.

[Ken]

Apparently it doesn't impact the children enough to create gaps in educational outcomes unlike the situation in the civilian world. And DOD schools themselves are not segregated by wealth unlike public schools in most of the rest of the country.

I wasn’t commenting at all about the DOD schools and whether they’re better or not. I was mostly responding to temporal. And your assertion about segregation.

My comments only relate to SCHOOL segregation and school performance on military bases versus the civilian world. Obviously military society is hierarchical.

[JayP]

I still hear the drum Ken. Please. I am lying that the union is a bunch of “me first” trough dwellers?

When you answer a single response without mentioning racism I will listen.

I am sure our schools are the best. Yeah. In my lifetime I have watched the population of Philadelphia plummet. It all started with school desegregation. Segregation was wrong. But the reality was the predominantly black schools stunk. Now the entire district is primarily black and ALL the schools stink. The liberals idea of progress.

[temporal1]

Actually there is a great deal of segregation in DOD schools. Just not racial segregation.

It is a segregation of concerned parents who value proper discipline.
Shocking…give me a set of parents who uniformly are not part of a broken home, care, and accept the place of discipline and Lo and behold their kids perform better in school. Shocking.

i think correct, and not dependent on economic status, that is, the poor are fully human, have the ability to discern right from wrong, respect rules+law, desire to learn, etc. According to scriptures, wealth brings added temptations and makes life harder.

You have a really rosy view of the military. I don’t. Maybe that’s because some of my friends are veterans with major issues and trauma from being in the military. It was not good for them at all.

If you want to find a place without socio economic segregation I suggest you look into our conservative Mennonite schools.

Yes. For similar reasons.
Teaching (demanding) respect for others, self-discipline, self-restraint, applying rules evenly, expectation of applied effort, etc.

On this forum, naturally, the lion’s share of discussion is about COs, and criticism of the military.

Occasionally, i’ve mentioned interesting positives i observed first-person about a community that was a combination of a military base and civilian community. Even after the base closure, many retired military remained. It was a distinctly orderly community - EVEN in the poorest neighborhoods. It reminded me of how most neighborhoods were when i was young. i grew up in a poor and mixed neighborhood, not crime-ridden. (To my knowledge, positives of military life have not been discussed before.)

i’m not a military person, i’m able to recognize positives without fearing i’m “selling out”.
i think it’s important to do that. to look for balance.

Being poor is not synonymous with crime. Terrible message.
Jesus never suggested anything of the sort. Humans have agency, no matter socio-economic status.

Occasionally, i read statements to the effect that (even today) crime is committed by a (known) minority, this minority is not addressed effectively, the (decent) poor pay the highest prices. Teachers, school admin, and police know who the at-risk children are from young. Policies prevent interference. Politics.

Example.
Our daughter began 1st grade in a new (to us) public school. Right away, she came home saying a boy had exposed himself in the classroom. We asked about it. Nothing. We put her in a nearby Christian school. Best year of her education. We couldn’t afford to continue, she returned to the public school. Meanwhile, new principal there. It was much improved. - - -

Years later, in her public school HS, one class visited the local jail. She came home, obviously shaken.
At the jail, she saw the boy from 1st grade behind bars.

This truly isn’t rocket science. The price of politics. Anything for a vote.

Not Jesus’ way. At all.

Had that child been in a Mennonite school, or a DOD school, he likely would not have been in jail in HS.

i presume this is a reason THOMAS SOWELL is in favor of Charter Schools. (??) They have more leeway to intervene.
(i’m not so sure.) Possibly, in the beginning, this would be true. The pattern suggests, anything subject to gov (lib political) oversight will be compromised.

respect for others,
self-discipline,
self-restraint,
applying rules evenly,
expectation of applied effort, etc.

^^these things are the responsibility of parents, starting (with toddlers).
schools+churches need to affirm what should have started in homes. they should not be first/only!
children do best when they get similar messages where ever they turn.

Cato Institute / Head Start: A Tragic Waste of Money
https://www.cato.org/commentary/head-st ... aste-money

[temporal1]

^^add underlined to above:

i presume this is a reason THOMAS SOWELL is in favor of Charter Schools. (??) They have more leeway to intervene.
(i’m not so sure.) Possibly, in the beginning, this would be true. The pattern suggests, anything subject to gov (lib political) oversight will be compromised. [i’ll guess conservative gov oversight might not be better.] It’s such a foreign concept to me, i don’t know.

THOMAS SOWELL makes a compelling case that black families, churches, schools, business, were doing significantly better before the 60’s social experiments. He lived it and studied it as an academic. i find him credible.

It goes back to my belief that it can’t be known what would have unfolded if the 60’s turn to government hadn’t been taken.
God promises to provide in all circumstances. There was no “have to” turn to gov. That’s false.

[Robert]

My comments only relate to SCHOOL segregation and school performance on military bases versus the civilian world. Obviously military society is hierarchical.

I would suspect that the reason why DOD schools have better performance is that more have higher percentage of fathers in their lives.