Poll: Age for Dating and Marriage

[Ken]

In my church young couples are typically engaged for 4 to 8 weeks.

I wonder if Ken would consider that "rushing things".

Most definitely if they are teenagers.

[JohnH]

In my church young couples are typically engaged for 4 to 8 weeks.

I wonder if Ken would consider that "rushing things".

Most definitely if they are teenagers.

It's been the standard since the early 1900s (before that, engagements were shorter - 3 weeks, and kept secret, with the engagement being announced a few minutes before the wedding ceremony at church on a Sunday).

People who are 18 frequently get married. Doesn't ever seem to cause a problem. As I pointed out earlier, the biggest stresses are coming from much older people being married. Of course, the largest cohort by far that are divorced or separated are people where both husband and wife are from the world; after that, the largest "problem" contingent are older people who get remarried after a spouse dies.

[Ken]

In my church young couples are typically engaged for 4 to 8 weeks.

I wonder if Ken would consider that "rushing things".

Most definitely if they are teenagers.

It's been the standard since the early 1900s (before that, engagements were shorter - 3 weeks, and kept secret, with the engagement being announced a few minutes before the wedding ceremony at church on a Sunday).

People who are 18 frequently get married. Doesn't ever seem to cause a problem. As I pointed out earlier, the biggest stresses are coming from much older people being married. Of course, the largest cohort by far that are divorced or separated are people where both husband and wife are from the world; after that, the largest "problem" contingent are older people who get remarried after a spouse dies.

Like I said, if teenagers are rushing into marriage after a 4-week engagement I would most definitely consider that "rushing into things" What is the hurry here for the biggest choice anyone will ever make in their lives?

[JohnH]

Like I said, if teenagers are rushing into marriage after a 4-week engagement I would most definitely consider that "rushing into things" What is the hurry here for the biggest choice anyone will ever make in their lives?

The standard for engagements in our circles has been 4 - 8 weeks for a century, so it's not "rushing things". It's the standard amount of time to be spent on an engagement.

Engagements are entered into very seriously, with vetting of both parties by their respective home ministers and deacons, and ultimately congregations. It is not a requirement, but most young people talk to their parents too before sending or accepting an engagement proposal, and a few days are spent spiritually seeking the Lord's will for if this is the right thing to send or accept, or not.

Once it is decided to be engaged... why wait? The general feeling is that waiting longer doesn't produce better fruit, and simply opens up a great deal of temptation for immorality. A young couple in love with each other and desiring of one another should not be expected to simply set their feelings and desires aside for years on end, and we can see the bitter fruit of doing so.

[temporal1]

Waiting and patience are desirable goals, certainly taught in Christianity.

In psychology, self-restraint and self control are markers of human development, lessons begin in families, with toddlers.
Very valuable for well-socialized children, teens, adults. Infants do not arrive civilized. It’s a lengthy process.

i’m glad for society that allows various customs to be respected, while not completely controlled by government.
For communities that support teen marriage, esp including means for gainful employment, it’s an opportunity for others to learn.
i believe, under 18, parents must sign off on marriage. at least, in most states. ??

Statistics reflect, modern society has great room for improvement wrt marriage+family.
A case could be made the left-west has failed at marriage+family.

Where there are pockets of success, why not encourage and give credit where credit is due?

i’m for lots of restrictions on legal minors and dependents, there are many; waiting is a requirement meant to protect them.
For me, this includes medications+surgeries (permanent gender-distortion mutilations) of minors,
esp not to be funded with taxpayer dollars.

What’s the (taxpayer funded) rush? “Waitng” is not a dirty word.

[temporal1]

An example of typical young people trying to figure out the left-west world they occupy, without much to go on.
i don’t sense any of them has considered a world without cheap-free bc pills or multiple means for abortion.
They don’t seem to have connected dots between these things and increased divorce and single parent homes.

From other Timcast videos, i don’t believe he/they are Christian, they are ambivalent about faith, “meh-maybe” .. as so many are.

Sad as it is, it’s important to recognize what’s going on in the godless world.

TimcastIRL / Americans STOPPED Dating & Won’t Start Families, Our Culture Is CRUMBLING / -15min

Found in Comments:
@wpriddy WROTE:
“remove all birth control and government assistance.
the problem fixes itself instantly.“

Guests:
Connor Tomlinson @Con_Tomlinson (X)
Dr. Drew @drdrew (X)
Dr. Chloe Carmichael |

Chloe Carmichael https://www.drchloe.com/about-dr-chloe-carmichael-phd
The blind leading the blind.

In my real life, similar to Chloe C., i notice many intelligent, well-educated, beautiful young women find themselves lost outside their life’s focus (academia) .. they notice their bio clocks ticking, get desperate looking at 30 .. “where are all the good men?!”
They presume marriage+family just magically appear when they want! After all, “anybody can do it” as they’ve been told.

[temporal1]

i’ve heard that complaint many times, “where are all the good men?” .. “why are all the good men taken?”

Well, you’ve been competing with them, criticizing them, besting them, then you expect them to be finished products waiting for you when you decide you’re ready. Also, “that good man” you’re now noticing, may not have looked that good BEFORE he was married for a number of years! Good marriages contribute to human development.

In healthy marriages, everyone thrives. A worthwhile goal.

i just think the left-west has a lot to learn about marriage+family. starting from toddlers in their homes and churches.
The results are in. Gov, academia, are not enough.

Like learning to drive a car, instructors with good (marriage) track records should be sought!
This forum has many.

[Ken]

i’ve heard that complaint many times, “where are all the good men?” .. “why are all the good men taken?”

Well, you’ve been competing with them, criticizing them, besting them, then you expect them to be finished products waiting for you when you decide you’re ready. Also, “that good man” you’re now noticing, may not have looked that good BEFORE he was married for a number of years! Good marriages contribute to human development.

I’m a guy. I teach hundreds of HS kids. And I have 3 young daughters.

It is honestly not girls fault that a lot of guys aren’t particularly marriage material. Frankly the bar is not that high. Clean yourself up, get your act together, and be thoughtful, responsible, and kind. Yet that seems to be too high of a bar for a lot of guys. Stop spending every single last dollar you make on your truck, guns, and video games. Not to hard.

[JohnH]

I’m a guy. I teach hundreds of HS kids. And I have 3 young daughters.

It is honestly not girls fault that a lot of guys aren’t particularly marriage material. Frankly the bar is not that high. Clean yourself up, get your act together, and be thoughtful, responsible, and kind. Yet that seems to be too high of a bar for a lot of guys. Stop spending every single last dollar you make on your truck, guns, and video games. Not to hard.

That's an odd criticism. Is it wrong for young men to decide to spend money on fixing up their trucks and keeping them running? Video games are not particularly expensive; while they are a gigantic time sink, women spend as much money as men do on video games (remember that most games in turns of revenue are pay-to-play mobile phone games now).

Stop spending every single last dollar you make on hair, nails, and mobile phone games. Not too hard.

See how that sounds?

[temporal1]

i’ve heard that complaint many times, “where are all the good men?” .. “why are all the good men taken?”

Well, you’ve been competing with them, criticizing them, besting them, then you expect them to be finished products waiting for you when you decide you’re ready. Also, “that good man” you’re now noticing, may not have looked that good BEFORE he was married for a number of years! Good marriages contribute to human development.

I’m a guy. I teach hundreds of HS kids. And I have 3 young daughters.

It is honestly not girls fault that a lot of guys aren’t particularly marriage material. Frankly the bar is not that high. Clean yourself up, get your act together, and be thoughtful, responsible, and kind. Yet that seems to be too high of a bar for a lot of guys. Stop spending every single last dollar you make on your truck, guns, and video games. Not to hard.

At about the 2:30 mark in the video above, young Dr Chloe Carmichael describes her own experience and some complaints of other young female professionals who confide in her as their therapist, how they feel misled if not betrayed by (the song you sing).

Disclaimer, i don’t believe any in this group is any description Christian.
If anything, i expect they’re ambivalent about faith. On another link, she offers references to Buddhism and teaches yoga.
i believe she’s located in NYC, a beautiful, hep young woman who has done everything the world told her to do. Colleges are repleat with them. These young women test well, earn diplomas.

And sense they’ve gotten something very wrong.

In my personal experience, i find the better educated women often “settle for less” by delaying family so long.
It’s not a matter of personal style or hygiene. It’s a matter of men with former multiple intimate partners, male+female, possibly divorced at least once, often bitter because of these unhappy experiences. Men who have tougher times finding work due to being replaced by DEI, etc. Demoralized in many ways. Women find themselves being primary breadwinners, when that was not a motivating factor.

1) Would you be enthusiastic for your daughters to marry the equivalent of you?
2) Checking back on this topic in 10 years for an update on how your daughters are doing (with their therapists) would be interesting.

Thing is, with EXPERIMENTS, eventually, results come in.

These EXPERIMENTS began (as i noticed) in the 60-70’s, after the advent of free-cheap bc pills, and at will abortion - both quickly promoted and underwritten by gov/taxpayer dollars, eventually to include the unmarried, then teens and children.

This has wreaked havoc on society. Like you, i’ve experienced it first-hand.

Personally, having lived as i have, i’ve wondered many times, WHY THE RUSH for females to ACHIEVE EVERYTHING by ages 25-30?
18-25-ish are God created golden years for female reproduction. It’s biology.

Life doesn’t end at age 30-40.
Why not value+nurture young families, delay higher education to 30+?? Esp for females.
i know MANY women who returned to school AFTER their children were in high school (example).

Typically, they make great, focused students that bring the maturity+wisdom gained from raising children.
Not in school, alone, these women bring more to the table where ever they land, business, everywhere.

The pressure on young females is unconscionable, imho. Of course, completely well-intended.

At some point they show up in therapy and wonder, “What happened?!”

i don’t see it as black+white. At all.
i think it’s a grave error to refuse to respect when others choose a different path.

Choosing a different path does not make one an ignorant hayseed. i’d like that part to end.