Your best friend's mom ...

[JohnH]

Then how to you explain the fact that college educated people have much higher marriage rates as well as lower divorce rates than non-college educated?

How do you explain that Amish and many plain Mennonites don't educate past the 8th grade, and certainly not college, and yet have very high marriage rates and virtually non-existent divorce rates?

One of the single biggest factors to predict whether men and women will get married and stay married in this country is whether or not they have a college education.

Do wet streets cause rain?

[Ken]

Then how to you explain the fact that college educated people have much higher marriage rates as well as lower divorce rates than non-college educated?

How do you explain that Amish and many Mennonites don't even educate past the 8th grade, yet have very high mariage rates and very low divorce rates?

Because they are insular communities that largely reject outsiders.

But if you are part of the 99.9% of the population that isn't conservative Amish or Mennonite, the fact remains that if you want your children to get married and stay married, the best way to accomplish that is to send them to college. And that holds true whether they are boys or girls.

[ken_sylvania]

Then how to you explain the fact that college educated people have much higher marriage rates as well as lower divorce rates than non-college educated?

How do you explain that Amish and many Mennonites don't even educate past the 8th grade, yet have very high mariage rates and very low divorce rates?

Because they are insular communities that largely reject outsiders.

But if you are part of the 99.9% of the population that isn't conservative Amish or Mennonite, the fact remains that if you want your children to get married and stay married, the best way to accomplish that is to send them to college. And that holds true whether they are boys or girls.

What a bunch of nonsense.

[Ken]

How do you explain that Amish and many Mennonites don't even educate past the 8th grade, yet have very high mariage rates and very low divorce rates?

Because they are insular communities that largely reject outsiders.

But if you are part of the 99.9% of the population that isn't conservative Amish or Mennonite, the fact remains that if you want your children to get married and stay married, the best way to accomplish that is to send them to college. And that holds true whether they are boys or girls.

What a bunch of nonsense.

Facts are hard, I know. The gap is actually growing. From Pew:

Marriage rates:



Marriage permanence:



And from Census data, divorce rates:

[JohnH]

Because they are insular communities that largely reject outsiders.

No, they don't. Myself and other people are outsiders who are nonetheless married. Some to another outsider, some to what you consider an "insider" in an "insular community".

But if you are part of the 99.9% of the population that isn't conservative Amish or Mennonite, the fact remains that if you want your children to get married and stay married, the best way to accomplish that is to send them to college. And that holds true whether they are boys or girls.

So the best way to get rain to fall down is to make the streets wet?

[Ken]

Because they are insular communities that largely reject outsiders.

No, they don't. Myself and other people are outsiders who are nonetheless married. Some to another outsider, some to what you consider an "insider" in an "insular community".

But if you are part of the 99.9% of the population that isn't conservative Amish or Mennonite, the fact remains that if you want your children to get married and stay married, the best way to accomplish that is to send them to college. And that holds true whether they are boys or girls.

So the best way to get rain to fall down is to make the streets wet?

Yes, Amish and conservative Mennonite communities are, in fact, insular and largely reject outsiders.

If you are a young non-Amish single man, what are the chances that you will be able to find an Amish wife? Slim to none I would suggest. And there are whole threads here on Mennonet about all the steps and "secret handshake" stuff that seekers need to go through to break into a conservative Anabaptist congregation. As well as all the anecdotal reports about how long it takes (if ever) for an outsider to be fully accepted as a member. That is the very definition of an insular community.

And what is this nonsense about rain making streets wet? The fact of the matter is that BOTH being Amish and being college educated are linked to higher marriage and lower divorce rates for perfectly well understood and well studied reasons.

Or are you saying that your "streets wet" analogy applies to the Amish as well? And that there is nothing particular about being Amish that leads to higher marriage rates, it is just coincidence?

[ken_sylvania]

Because they are insular communities that largely reject outsiders.

But if you are part of the 99.9% of the population that isn't conservative Amish or Mennonite, the fact remains that if you want your children to get married and stay married, the best way to accomplish that is to send them to college. And that holds true whether they are boys or girls.

What a bunch of nonsense.

Facts are hard, I know. The gap is actually growing. From Pew:

Marriage rates:



Marriage permanence:



And from Census data, divorce rates:

So you're telling me that sending a child to college will actually do more for their chances of having a good marriage than will teaching them to be honest, kind, affectionate, diligent and clean? Is sending them to college really the best way to get them married?

[Ken]

So you're telling me that sending a child to college will actually do more for their chances of having a good marriage than will teaching them to be honest, kind, affectionate, diligent and clean? Is sending them to college really the best way to get them married?

You do realize that is a false dichotomy and those are not mutually exclusive things? You can do both.

And yes, if you do want to increase the chance that your children will get married and stay married, sending them to college is one way to increase the chances. There are a whole lot of reasons for that if you want to get into them. Some of it has to do with the increased social opportunities within college itself compared to the outside working world. And some of it has to do with the increased economic opportunities, income, and economic stability that college education confers. There are probably other reasons related to class as well.

[JohnH]

Yes, Amish and conservative Mennonite communities are, in fact, insular and largely reject outsiders.

Perhaps some do, but many don't. There are plenty of "outsiders" in my particular denomination. There are even in Amish circles, although they can be somewhat hard to identify since, well, they tend to all look the same due to attire, haircuts and so forth.

If you are a young non-Amish single man, what are the chances that you will be able to find an Amish wife? Slim to none I would suggest.

Most single people who join an Amish or Mennonite church end up "marrying in". It is just an inevitability. The ones who do not, well, they are usually very odd people who either don't want to get married or are very socially "off".

And there are whole threads here on Mennonet about all the steps and "secret handshake" stuff that seekers need to go through to break into a conservative Anabaptist congregation. As well as all the anecdotal reports about how long it takes (if ever) for an outsider to be fully accepted as a member. That is the very definition of an insular community.

Again, that is true maybe of some groups but not others and certainly not all.

And what is this nonsense about rain making streets wet? The fact of the matter is that BOTH being Amish and being college educated are linked to higher marriage and lower divorce rates for perfectly well understood and well studied reasons.

But the fact Amish almost entirely reject college yet have very high marriage rates and very low divorce rates means that college is not actually the cause. Instead, it is correlating with something else; my guess is it is a correlation with general intelligence and with social class. People with higher general intelligence are less likely to be criminal, less impulsive, do better at delaying gratification and so forth. It is not particularly helpful, though, to observer that "If you could just be born smarter, then you would have more desirable life outcomes."

Or are you saying that your "streets wet" analogy applies to the Amish as well? And that there is nothing particular about being Amish that leads to higher marriage rates, it is just coincidence?

What I am saying is that simply saying if you send someone to college, it will make them more likely to get married and not divorced, may be entirely incorrect, because you could be missing a third factor that leads both to people going to college and getting married/not divorced.

What is happening with the Amish is something different entirely, because it does not have any self-selection. The entire population (almost) gets married and divorce is (almost) nonexistent. This holds true even for people who are somewhat marginal, perhaps not very intelligent, or otherwise have setbacks that would cause them to have worse life outcomes in a non-Amish setting. It would seem that whatever the Amish and plain Mennonite lifestyle it is, it leads to better life outcomes (in certain dimensions).

[Ken]

What I am saying is that simply saying if you send someone to college, it will make them more likely to get married and not divorced, may be entirely incorrect, because you could be missing a third factor that leads both to people going to college and getting married/not divorced.

And what is this mystery 3rd factor?

The reality is that membership in an insular religious group and college attendance BOTH lead to higher marriage and lower divorce rates. For very well understood and well-studied reasons. As with all complex social trends there are multiple interrelated factors involved. But those are two big ones. Endless research and books have been written about the subject. It is not some mystery. Conversely, there is also a lot of research as to why marriage rates are plummeting among the non college educated. It is a lot of the same reasons in reverse.