Bethel Church

[JohnH]

Is that because JohnH is a Mennonite at the moment? Would you be questioning him if he was instead an ex-Mennonite, or would that make him pretty credible?

I was shocked at his endorsement of Bethel Redding is why.

I didn’t endorse it.

I simply objected to saying they’re wrong for believing in miracles.

[Ken]

Is that because JohnH is a Mennonite at the moment? Would you be questioning him if he was instead an ex-Mennonite, or would that make him pretty credible?

I was shocked at his endorsement of Bethel Redding is why.

I didn’t endorse it.

I simply objected to saying they’re wrong for believing in miracles.

They aren’t being criticized for believing in miracles. Most Christians believe Jesus performed miracles.

They are being criticized for “monetizing” miracles and cashing in on millions of dollars in economic gain by selling people on the idea that they can learn to perform miracles themselves if they pay a lot of money to attend the “Christian Hogwarts” academy. Which by the way is THEIR nickname, not mine.

What does your Bible say about selling miracles for cash? Is that a Biblical concept that Jesus taught?

[JohnH]

What does your Bible say about selling miracles for cash? Is that a Biblical concept that Jesus taught?

Is Bethel doing that?

[Ken]

What does your Bible say about selling miracles for cash? Is that a Biblical concept that Jesus taught?

Is Bethel doing that?

Yes, their whole Supernatural Miracle Academy is a big cash cow that brings in millions of dollars.

[R7ehr]

What does your Bible say about selling miracles for cash? Is that a Biblical concept that Jesus taught?

Is Bethel doing that?

Yes, their whole Supernatural Miracle Academy is a big cash cow that brings in millions of dollars.

I am not one hundred percent sure but I know there was extended attendance at a school of supernatural ministry/prophecy etc...and I know they spoke favorably of "going to places where folks had died" to pick up "their mantle" and "annointing" from their graves/places of death. Their twist on it was also they wanted to go to the Switzerland to get the mantle of the spirit from Manz et al. They were in a somewhat fringie-ish CA church, though a CA church. They eventually went too far for that church and they left/were "pushed out."

But that sort of Bethel influence is definitely present in some CA circles.

If there is any evidence at all Bethel has been successful in these things, the best proof is that they have sucked up the mantel of Simon Magus of Acts 8:9-25. Because they are succeeding in simony, that is buying and selling the power of the Holy Spirit.

Here is what Peter said to Simon:
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

[JohnH]

Yes, their whole Supernatural Miracle Academy is a big cash cow that brings in millions of dollars.

Lots of denominations run Bible schools, Bible colleges, or hand out theology degrees. And many of them charge tuition for doing so.

If there is any evidence at all Bethel has been successful in these things, the best proof is that they have sucked up the mantel of Simon Magus of Acts 8:9-25. Because they are succeeding in simony, that is buying and selling the power of the Holy Spirit.

Bethel doesn't charge for healing services, healing prayers, or any of that stuff. You can just show up and attend a service - no charge. They do, of course, provide a time to ask for donations, like most other churches do.

They do have the equivalent of a Bible school that does charge tuition. On-campus tuition is $5,250 a year for the first 2 years and $1,500 for the third year. That's pretty cheap, in my opinion.

For comparison, Faith Builders is $13k - $19k (depending on fees/room/board etc) for one year. I don't think any of us would accuse Faith Builders of simony.

[JoyE]

I'm not familiar with any of these ministries except Todd Bentley, and he's been long discredited.

But as to raising the dead, it is happening some today, in this country and around the world. It was not that rare in the early church. Jesus commissioned His disciples to do it. [Mat 10:8 KJV] 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. And those things are happening among Christians who believe God still works miracles, particularly in other countries. But although our churches say they believe in miracles, there sure aren't many happening. [Mat 13:58 KJV] 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

[JohnH]

I checked up with a friend who went through Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry (in Cleveland, they have campuses in Redding and Cleveland, the Cleveland one is about half the price).

It includes housing which is a pretty good deal for $2,700 a year for Cleveland or the $5k+ price for Redding. I'd challenge anyone to find a place to live for that cheap. In Cleveland some people in their church found houses in "bad" parts of town, fixed them up, and have since tried to minister to the surrounding community, and the students live in those houses and share meals, etc., which saves money.

The programs are structured so that you can easily have a part time job and it's possible to have a full time job whilst doing the program in the first 2 years. They do do mission trips which require taking time off to go do that. They also encourage a lot of local service opportunities. For example the Cleveland one works closely with some kind of food bank/farmers market thing to try to serve people in "food deserts".

The third year is $900.. for the whole year.. and is an internship where you do ministry work with Bethel. Same housing arrangement. The time demands are such you could work a part time job but not full time.

I would also challenge anyone claiming this is making "millions of dollars". It isn't, and Bethel has scaled back on a lot of its more expensive things, such as they stopped having multiple campuses in Cleveland and just have one now, and sold off or stopped renting the other locations. They have shifted to trying to have much smaller meetings in homes in other places such as Akron instead of taking on the cost of maintaining a building for Sunday services, and then a few times a year arrange transportation for people in those locations who can't drive to go to bigger events at their big church. They used to have a building in Akron but as I understand it gave the building away to a "Holiness Church" type of group who meets there now.

While I don't see eye to eye on them in some areas of doctrine, ecclesiology, and practice, I do think there are a lot of sincere followers of Jesus there who are trying to help build Jesus' kingdom on earth.

[JayP]

JohnH. I freely admit I don’t get you, find you annoying, but…..are you actually endorsing this crap.?

Now let me be clear. I would never call any real religion “crap” out of the desire to be respectful, that even if you do not agree it is not a way to be persuasive. But how many “churches “ like this do we have to see before we wise up?


All one has to do to evaluate evangelical groups is ask a few questions?
If you answer yes to any….then run.

1. Are the raking in huge dollars and the leader lives so good?
2. Do wives and children just happen to also be soooo godly that they get positions of power?
3. Is there a lack of accountability/oversight where people NOT linked to the leader/founder can call out irregularities?

Sheesh. Why do I think it’s only a matter of time until we read about either sexual improprieties, financial rip offs, etc.?

[Ken]

Yes, their whole Supernatural Miracle Academy is a big cash cow that brings in millions of dollars.

Lots of denominations run Bible schools, Bible colleges, or hand out theology degrees. And many of them charge tuition for doing so.

If there is any evidence at all Bethel has been successful in these things, the best proof is that they have sucked up the mantel of Simon Magus of Acts 8:9-25. Because they are succeeding in simony, that is buying and selling the power of the Holy Spirit.

Bethel doesn't charge for healing services, healing prayers, or any of that stuff. You can just show up and attend a service - no charge. They do, of course, provide a time to ask for donations, like most other churches do.

They do have the equivalent of a Bible school that does charge tuition. On-campus tuition is $5,250 a year for the first 2 years and $1,500 for the third year. That's pretty cheap, in my opinion.

For comparison, Faith Builders is $13k - $19k (depending on fees/room/board etc) for one year. I don't think any of us would accuse Faith Builders of simony.

I don’t think Faith Builders is selling the ability to perform miracles.