R7ehr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 11, 2025 10:51 am
Makes sense. I generally would put Bethel and chiropractors in the same bucket.
Full disclosure. We have chiropractors in the family but also my wife is a physician and disdainful of the profession. Her take as a physician?
Chiropractors can be good and sometimes excellent at traditional rehab if you have an injured shoulder or sciatica or something that needs to be stretched out, exercised and healed. You can find lots of basic stretching and rehab exercises on YouTube, many by chiropractors, that are good stuff. And chiropractors do a lot of the same mainstream joint and injury rehab you would get by going to a traditional medical clinic and dealing with a physical therapist.
But physical therapy and rehab doesn't necessarily keep a chiropractor practice running full time, especially when there are so many chiropractors around. So the profession has layered on top of normal rehab medicine a bunch of pseudoscience about how joint "adjustments" can do magic things like cure migraines, boost your immune system, and so forth. And get otherwise healthy people convinced to pay for a lot of constant and regular "adjustments" that go beyond basic medical rehab for joint and nerve injuries and problems. There was a lot of this during COVID as some chiropractors were leaders in peddling fake COVID cures and treatments to boost the immune system: https://chiromt.biomedcentral.com/artic ... 20-00312-x
But I don't put that into the same category as earning millions of dollars teaching people to be "faith healers" and how to conduct other miracles at their "school of supernatural ministries" as Bethel does.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
If it’s Oasis Tabernacle, I don’t see how you could describe them as “sound in doctrine”.
They also have interactions with Bethel and generally speaking would be fully onboard with Bethel stuff.
Valerie, I don’t understand why you seem to think ex-Amish/ex-Mennonites gives a place more credibility.
Wrong JohnH. I’ve tried 3x with lengthy reply for now I’d say I have had enough interaction with pastor & Oasis to disclaim what you said. Right now I’m questioning your judgement anyway.
My (former) barber’s son and his wife were quite enthusiastic about Oasis and also quite enthusiastic about Bethel (Cleveland) and apparently groups from Oasis would go up to Bethel (back when they had multiple campuses; now they just have one) when special speakers were visiting. There were stories of various miracles happening, like “leg lengthening” where someone went to a Bethel service and their need to see a chiropractor went away.
I believe in miracles because I believe in God.
If Oasis hinted of anything similar to Bethel Redding we’d never attend or faithfully watch weekly. No hint of it but who knows if people get confused about some things but they should run away from strange fire.
R7ehr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 11, 2025 10:35 am Is that because JohnH is a Mennonite at the moment? Would you be questioning him if he was instead an ex-Mennonite, or would that make him pretty credible?
I was shocked at his endorsement of Bethel Redding is why.
R7ehr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 11, 2025 10:51 am
Makes sense. I generally would put Bethel and chiropractors in the same bucket.
Full disclosure. We have chiropractors in the family but also my wife is a physician and disdainful of the profession. Her take as a physician?
Chiropractors can be good and sometimes excellent at traditional rehab if you have an injured shoulder or sciatica or something that needs to be stretched out, exercised and healed. You can find lots of basic stretching and rehab exercises on YouTube, many by chiropractors, that are good stuff. And chiropractors do a lot of the same mainstream joint and injury rehab you would get by going to a traditional medical clinic and dealing with a physical therapist.
But physical therapy and rehab doesn't necessarily keep a chiropractor practice running full time, especially when there are so many chiropractors around. So the profession has layered on top of normal rehab medicine a bunch of pseudoscience about how joint "adjustments" can do magic things like cure migraines, boost your immune system, and so forth. And get otherwise healthy people convinced to pay for a lot of constant and regular "adjustments" that go beyond basic medical rehab for joint and nerve injuries and problems. There was a lot of this during COVID as some chiropractors were leaders in peddling fake COVID cures and treatments to boost the immune system: https://chiromt.biomedcentral.com/artic ... 20-00312-x
But I don't put that into the same category as earning millions of dollars teaching people to be "faith healers" and how to conduct other miracles at their "school of supernatural ministries" as Bethel does.
We could give fantastic testimonies to how Chiropractors fixed & healed various things, I too was skeptical but they are our go to now because of results. They take insurance now because they have been approved. 2 supplements we got from ours cut out my husbands allergies he had forever and the other got him off blood pressure meds, yay!!
R7ehr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 11, 2025 10:51 am
Makes sense. I generally would put Bethel and chiropractors in the same bucket.
Full disclosure. We have chiropractors in the family but also my wife is a physician and disdainful of the profession. Her take as a physician?
Chiropractors can be good and sometimes excellent at traditional rehab if you have an injured shoulder or sciatica or something that needs to be stretched out, exercised and healed. You can find lots of basic stretching and rehab exercises on YouTube, many by chiropractors, that are good stuff. And chiropractors do a lot of the same mainstream joint and injury rehab you would get by going to a traditional medical clinic and dealing with a physical therapist.
But physical therapy and rehab doesn't necessarily keep a chiropractor practice running full time, especially when there are so many chiropractors around. So the profession has layered on top of normal rehab medicine a bunch of pseudoscience about how joint "adjustments" can do magic things like cure migraines, boost your immune system, and so forth. And get otherwise healthy people convinced to pay for a lot of constant and regular "adjustments" that go beyond basic medical rehab for joint and nerve injuries and problems. There was a lot of this during COVID as some chiropractors were leaders in peddling fake COVID cures and treatments to boost the immune system: https://chiromt.biomedcentral.com/artic ... 20-00312-x
But I don't put that into the same category as earning millions of dollars teaching people to be "faith healers" and how to conduct other miracles at their "school of supernatural ministries" as Bethel does.
We could give fantastic testimonies to how Chiropractors fixed & healed various things, I too was skeptical but they are our go to now because of results. They take insurance now because they have been approved. 2 supplements we got from ours cut out my husbands allergies he had forever and the other got him off blood pressure meds, yay!!
Like I said, some of what they do is completely mainstream and legitimate. Some of it is not. You have to sort out the difference. Getting a chiropractic adjustment to your back is not going to boost your immune system and prevent you from catching COVID or measles or other infectious disease despite lots of claims about that very thing during the COVID epidemic. None of which have any scientific support whatsoever. But chiropractors can and do effectively treat things like lower back pain or sciatica or arthritic pain. And there is a lot of mainstream science supporting this.
If your chiropractor is selling you supplements, well that isn't chiropractic medicine. That is just a chiropractor peddling supplements on the side. Some doctors offices do the same exact thing. As do some booths at the local farmers market. I even know teachers who dabble in that sort of thing through MLM schemes. Who sells them to you doesn't make them any more effective or not. Nutrition is a whole separate science from chiropractic medicine.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Interesting. I am somewhat familiar with Blessings of Hope but was unaware of any of the backstory or the founder's history.
The Blessings of Hope organization has grown exponentially to the point where it has completely overshadowed the other projects that the Lapp brothers are or were involved with. At this point it is a sizeable network of warehouses, trucks, processing and distribution centers that take food donations and repackage them for use by many other organizations. They have big name recognition and do good work. I've supported them in the past.
Missing from Josh's list is the time the bros were part of a self-described 'Amish delegation' to Israel to apologize to the Jews for the silence of the Amish during the Holocaust, stating in part, "We, the Amish and Anabaptist people turned away from Jewish nation, while they were in their darkest hour of need. We hardened our hearts against them, we left them - never lifting our voices in protest against the atrocities that were committed against them. We want to publicly repent of this and acknowledge our support of Israel."
Interesting. I am somewhat familiar with Blessings of Hope but was unaware of any of the backstory or the founder's history.
The Blessings of Hope organization has grown exponentially to the point where it has completely overshadowed the other projects that the Lapp brothers are or were involved with. At this point it is a sizeable network of warehouses, trucks, processing and distribution centers that take food donations and repackage them for use by many other organizations. They have big name recognition and do good work. I've supported them in the past.
Missing from Josh's list is the time the bros were part of a self-described 'Amish delegation' to Israel to apologize to the Jews for the silence of the Amish during the Holocaust, stating in part, "We, the Amish and Anabaptist people turned away from Jewish nation, while they were in their darkest hour of need. We hardened our hearts against them, we left them - never lifting our voices in protest against the atrocities that were committed against them. We want to publicly repent of this and acknowledge our support of Israel."
That was really bizarre and ridiculous and weirdly performative in a presumptuous way. American and Canadian Mennonites and Amish were not involved in US policy during WW2 but were otherwise generally loyal Americans supporting the war effort through agricultural production. There wasn't much that any North American religious group could have done to affect policies in Germany and the USSR during the 1930s and 1940s. World events are much larger than that. The US and Allies did have a "Germany First" policy during WW2 which meant the European theater got priority over the Pacific theater and defeating the Nazis was the #1 priority. For example, more American airmen died in just the 8th Airforce doing strategic bombing over Germany than all the US Marines who died in the entire Pacific war against Japan from Pearl Harbor to Okinawa.
As for German and Ukrainian Anabaptists who supported Hitler over Stalin? That seems like a problem of picking your poison. After the Holodomor one can easily understand how the German Nazis would have been seen as liberators in Ukraine in 1941. But in any event, actual Amish had disappeared from Europe centuries before that anyway.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
mike wrote:
Missing from Josh's list is the time the bros were part of a self-described 'Amish delegation' to Israel to apologize to the Jews for the silence of the Amish during the Holocaust, stating in part, "We, the Amish and Anabaptist people turned away from Jewish nation, while they were in their darkest hour of need. We hardened our hearts against them, we left them - never lifting our voices in protest against the atrocities that were committed against them. We want to publicly repent of this and acknowledge our support of Israel."
That was really bizarre and ridiculous and weirdly performative in a presumptuous way. American and Canadian Mennonites and Amish were not involved in US policy during WW2 but were otherwise generally loyal Americans supporting the war effort through agricultural production. There wasn't much that any North American religious group could have done to affect policies in Germany and the USSR during the 1930s and 1940s. World events are much larger than that. The US and Allies did have a "Germany First" policy during WW2 which meant the European theater got priority over the Pacific theater and defeating the Nazis was the #1 priority. For example, more American airmen died in just the 8th Airforce doing strategic bombing over Germany than all the US Marines who died in the entire Pacific war against Japan from Pearl Harbor to Okinawa.
When it happened, there was a thread about it on (then) MennoDiscuss.com. You would have loved it.
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 11, 2025 1:54 pm
As for German and Ukrainian Anabaptists who supported Hitler over Stalin? That seems like a problem of picking your poison. After the Holodomor one can easily understand how the German Nazis would have been seen as liberators in Ukraine in 1941. But in any event, actual Amish had disappeared from Europe centuries before that anyway.
The last actual Amish in Europe merged with their neighboring Mennonite congregation in 1937.
Is that because JohnH is a Mennonite at the moment? Would you be questioning him if he was instead an ex-Mennonite, or would that make him pretty credible? 
