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JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 8:24 am I was referring to Anabaptists as a whole, particularly the ones more sympathetic to the left wing. (We know those sympathetic to the right have sometimes also attended political rallies that do not befit the Christian.)

There are often instances on MN whenever a few individuals will "attack" plain, traditional Anabaptists who hold something in common with the left as being sympathetic to the left wing or of being actually leftist.

If these plain, traditional Anabaptists had to choose between attending a left-wing church or a right-wing church while away from their own Anabaptist communities, they would choose right wing. But that doesn't seem to figure in when these traditional folks are accused of being leftish.

30-35 years ago when I was a young man, my dad, who was one of the staunchest Old Order minded Anabaptists around, told me that liberals and Jesus followers often take positions that look very similar, (based on the teachings of Jesus) but they are worlds apart in the way that they think about these things and in their affirmation of historic Biblical theology and practice. Over the decades I've found that to be true.

Someone else has pointed out that when people, constituencies, or movements start moving away from following Jesus, they first take on the agendas of the right before moving on to embracing agendas of the left.

All this to say that lobbing accusations at people anytime they do something or say something that is similar to either liberals or conservatives can be unkind at best and guilty of false accusation at worst.

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 10:39 am There are often instances on MN whenever a few individuals will "attack" plain, traditional Anabaptists who hold something in common with the left as being sympathetic to the left wing or of being actually leftist.

If these plain, traditional Anabaptists had to choose between attending a left-wing church or a right-wing church while away from their own Anabaptist communities, they would choose right wing. But that doesn't seem to figure in when these traditional folks are accused of being leftish.

I'm not talking about those kind of things, though. I'm talking about (for example) the relentless push I see from the leftist-sympathisers in the plain Anabaptist world to promote women in ministry, teaching positions, etc.

30-35 years ago when I was a young man, my dad, who was one of the staunchest Old Order minded Anabaptists around, told me that liberals and Jesus followers often take positions that look very similar, (based on the teachings of Jesus) but they are worlds apart in the way that they think about these things and in their affirmation of historic Biblical theology and practice. Over the decades I've found that to be true.

Yes. The same would be true of political conservatives, though. They often have positions that look similar, but are actually worlds apart.

Someone else has pointed out that when people, constituencies, or movements start moving away from following Jesus, they first take on the agendas of the right before moving on to embracing agendas of the left.

Yes, I've been saying that for 12 years on this forum.

All this to say that lobbing accusations at people anytime they do something or say something that is similar to either liberals or conservatives can be unkind at best and guilty of false accusation at worst.

Which is why I don't do it indiscriminately; I'm just waiting for Anabaptist Perspectives' first post on something such as:

- why most Old Orders are choosing not to vaccinate these days*, and didn't vaccinate historically at high rates either
- why women shouldn't be in positions of leadership, ministry, teaching positions, and so forth in a church context (from an Anabaptist perspective)
- the dangers of Christians sympathising with left-wing movements such as supporting higher levels of immigration, opposition to building data centers, and so forth

* A Holmes County public health worker once griped to me that the rate was about 15%; his job was to get the rate higher and he was not having much success.

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 1:58 pm

barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 1:57 pm

joshuabgood wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 9:54 am My sense is that AP is "liberal" in the sense that they dare to challenge the right wing political nationalism that has made significant inroads into the CA movement in the last 50 years.

As for being politically active "liberals," they aren't. I think, were leftist political action a real threat to the CA's, they would be challenging that. But it isn't.

Who knows, if there is a big leftward shift in the next couple of years they might get the chance to come from that angle.

There's already been a big leftward shift, but I don't see Anabaptist Perspectives speaking out at [all against the leftism and liberalism in broader Anabaptist circles. They do exist, after all.

They seem to be only razor-focused on Anabaptists who are "too conservative". No concern at all for the broader community.

I believe this is an example of what Ernie was getting at. I have no idea what you are talking about in your last paragraph. I listen to most of their content and have not picked up on your characterization of them at all. Maybe you can point us to an example of what you are talking about.

GaryK wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 2:05 pm I believe this is an example of what Ernie was getting at. I have no idea what you are talking about in your last paragraph. I listen to most of their content and have not picked up on your characterization of them at all. Maybe you can point us to an example of what you are talking about.

They seem quite willing to give air time to concern about things like "Christian nationalism"; I have yet to see any airtime given to the problematic political inroads in more liberal Anabaptist circles.

That's what I'm getting to.

It basically makes it a farce to claim that they're just concerned about politics in general, because they aren't: they're only concerned about one particular political leaning.

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 2:06 pm

GaryK wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 2:05 pm I believe this is an example of what Ernie was getting at. I have no idea what you are talking about in your last paragraph. I listen to most of their content and have not picked up on your characterization of them at all. Maybe you can point us to an example of what you are talking about.

They seem quite willing to give air time to concern about things like "Christian nationalism"; I have yet to see any airtime given to the problematic political inroads in more liberal Anabaptist circles.

That's what I'm getting to.

It basically makes it a farce to claim that they're just concerned about politics in general, because they aren't: they're only concerned about one particular political leaning.

I disagree.

Let's move the specifics of the discussion about AP to the AP thread. I wanted this thread to be about the problem of Stereotyping and Overgeneralizing things about Anabpatists outside of AP.

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 2:56 pm Let's move the specifics of the discussion about AP to the AP thread. I wanted this thread to be about the problem of Stereotyping and Overgeneralizing things about Anabpatists outside of AP.

OK. Perhaps a good place to start, if you want to discuss such a thing, would be for you to discuss the problem of Stereotyping and Overgeneralizing Holdemam Anabaptists, which has been a popular pastime on this forum for quite some time.

Let's move the specifics of the discussion about AP to the AP thread. I wanted this thread to be about the problem of Stereotyping and Overgeneralizing things about Anabpatists outside of AP.

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 4:45 pm Let's move the specifics of the discussion about AP to the AP thread. I wanted this thread to be about the problem of Stereotyping and Overgeneralizing things about Anabpatists outside of AP.

The generalization of Anabaptists is as old as the movement itself and one group generalizing other groups within is nearly as old. The names "Anabaptist" and "Mennonite" are from outsiders making generalizations. As I recall Simmons once excommunicated the entire Swiss brothers movement over their handling of the ban. This is history repeating.

barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 4:49 pm

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2026 4:45 pm Let's move the specifics of the discussion about AP to the AP thread. I wanted this thread to be about the problem of Stereotyping and Overgeneralizing things about Anabpatists outside of AP.

The generalization of Anabaptists is as old as the movement itself and one group generalizing other groups within is nearly as old. The names "Anabaptist" and "Mennonite" are from outsiders making generalizations. As I recall Simmons once excommunicated the entire Swiss brothers movement over their handling of the ban. This is history repeating.

Where and when did this happen? Which "Simmons" was this?