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Soloist wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:34 pm Wife: Yeah, I think that heartbeat of the remnant would now probably be more affiliated with Agape. I know that Mark Brubaker (living Hope Christian fellowship) has written in it, and he’s one of the main people who spearheaded Agape fellowship. He used to run around with Denny and Mose back in the day, and I forget the name of the two Bible schools their churches do. Maybe Ephrata and one other. Not sure if Brubaker’s still are in charge of the Bible schools because his wife has health issues, but one is in November, and the other one is maybe February or March. Ironically, one of the ladies at the church we used to go to recommended against the charity churches in our area.

Also, I have no idea if Mark’s church does segregated seating for the entire congregation or not, but the other churches at least did it with the youth in the front rows. They also had basically everybody show up at Wednesday night prayer service, and there was a fellowship meal every other week.

mike wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:45 pm

Josh wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 11:30 pm

mike wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:45 pm And so, why don't these kinds of groups address change in a more straightforward way by acknowledging it not only happens but sometimes needs to happen, that it can be a good thing, and can be done without going down the slippery slope into worldliness. If token adherence to rigid written standards that they don't even believe in themselves is the only thing keeping them from becoming godless worldlings, do they really possess genuine faith in Jesus?

Well, that was the exact message that a lot of liberalising forces (including Charity, in particular), had: that the answer was to abandon traditions and instead embrace some kind of personal, evangelical-style "relationship with Jesus".

However, we can judge the end fruit of that movement: it resulted in a lot of people who eventually ended up with a "relationship with Jesus" that also meant not obeying him or really following him in the ways he taught us to in the New Testament. And thus, my confidence in the whole evangelical "relationship with Jesus" approach has been lost.

I am not saying to be a die-hard traditionalist, but the answers that the Charity movement and other evangelical-liberalising movements offered was not an answer that moved a body of believers closer to being more Christlike.

I can't entirely disagree with you, although I would argue that the Charity movement had some good effects on other plain Anabaptist groups that will stick around long after the movement is off the scene. And there are many individuals and plenty of churches that came out of or were impacted by the movement that are doing well and appear to have solid footing into the next generation. I would put Harmony Christian Fellowship in that category, and numbers of others.

steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:22 am So... basically the Charity franchise rebranded itself? It is Charity but not Charity, both at the same time?

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:25 am

steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:22 am So... basically the Charity franchise rebranded itself? It is Charity but not Charity, both at the same time?

No. They have written standards, and what sounds like a loose conference structure. So it appears that they have moved a bit towards the Conservative Mennonite movement.

steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:26 am

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:25 am

steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:22 am So... basically the Charity franchise rebranded itself? It is Charity but not Charity, both at the same time?

No. They have written standards, and what sounds like a loose conference structure. So it appears that they have moved a bit towards the Conservative Mennonite movement.

So what would Harmoney and it's spin-off consider themsleves?

Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:04 am Is there a link to this 'Agape Christian Fellowship' spoken of here ? It seems to me to be a term used by various groups. I looked up one using this name and their statement of faith did not appear totally Anabaptist.

I find it interesting how some Christian faith groups are dropping words in their church identifications and the reasons for it. For instance, some would say 'Fellowship' today is just too masculine to be used as a name. I was raised in a local church using the word 'Tabernacle' which I seldom hear used today but 'Community' seems to have got quite popular.

Soloist wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:02 am Never heard fellowship being called masculine, that’s a new one for me.