Why do Swiss Anabaptists practice ethnic separatism from other Anabaptists?

[Soloist]

If it can’t be resolved and they decide the church is apostate, then why should they care if such a church expels them?

Wife: So I’m just curious how that Holderman person’s family members would treat the expelled individual. I actually do not know how they practice it with family gatherings, for example. I don’t think it changes much for husband/wife relationships, assuming they were both church members there at one point and one leaves the church, but I don’t know how it would work for a family reunion or going to visit grandma and grandpa for Thanksgiving for example.

If this is too off-topic, feel free to move it to a new thread

[JohnH]

If it can’t be resolved and they decide the church is apostate, then why should they care if such a church expels them?

Wife: So I’m just curious how that Holderman person’s family members would treat the expelled individual. I actually do not know how they practice it with family gatherings, for example. I don’t think it changes much for husband/wife relationships, assuming they were both church members there at one point and one leaves the church, but I don’t know how it would work for a family reunion or going to visit grandma and grandpa for Thanksgiving for example.

If this is too off-topic, feel free to move it to a new thread

Of all the people I personally know, their spiritual problems are far more of an issue, so that's really all I can speak to. Holidays are the primary time when family members get together with their expelled family members.

For example, unfortunately, my brother-in-law-in-law fell into conspiracy theories and is very certain the earth is flat, the moon landing is faked, and that we shouldn't trust the government, and so on. This got to a level where it became a spiritual problem and now he is apart from the church fellowship.

I don't know anyone personally who has left our church and then gone to another plain Anabaptist church. I have met 1 person that used to for a few years, but they aren't attending there anymore. I have met another person that married someone in a Charity type of church in PA but that Charity church is now not conservative/plain anymore.

In short, people who leave the Holdemans are not people who are looking to be part of a conservative Anabaptist church, and if they were, they'd just stay. I do know there is a seeker family who ended up joining the late David Black's church in Linden TN. That's all I can think of where the person is actually a member.

[Soloist]

Of all the people I personally know, their spiritual problems are far more of an issue, so that's really all I can speak to. Holidays are the primary time when family members get together with their expelled family members.

wife: I was just meaning in general (not specific to leaving the OTT), and I think you’ve answered my question that they would still be invited to family gatherings.

[JohnH]

Of all the people I personally know, their spiritual problems are far more of an issue, so that's really all I can speak to. Holidays are the primary time when family members get together with their expelled family members.

wife: I was just meaning in general (not specific to leaving the OTT), and I think you’ve answered my question that they would still be invited to family gatherings.

Thanksgiving, Christmas, weddings, funerals, family reunions, auctions, and other such types of non-spiritual gatherings are generally where one catches up with expelled people and finds out what is going on.

I would have to add that I have never found more bitter people in my entire life than ex-Holdemans. They have a chip on their shoulder the size of a semi, generally speaking.

The exception are people who simply have a sin issue they can’t overcome and acknowledge it as sin, as opposed to being divided with the church and thinking they are “right”.

I don’t get it. If I disagreed with our church and left, I’d just move on.

[Ernie]

Of all the people I personally know, their spiritual problems are far more of an issue, so that's really all I can speak to. Holidays are the primary time when family members get together with their expelled family members.

wife: I was just meaning in general (not specific to leaving the OTT), and I think you’ve answered my question that they would still be invited to family gatherings.

Thanksgiving, Christmas, weddings, funerals, family reunions, auctions, and other such types of non-spiritual gatherings are generally where one catches up with expelled people and finds out what is going on.

I would have to add that I have never found more bitter people in my entire life than ex-Holdemans. They have a chip on their shoulder the size of a semi, generally speaking.

The exception are people who simply have a sin issue they can’t overcome and acknowledge it as sin, as opposed to being divided with the church and thinking they are “right”.

I don’t get it. If I disagreed with our church and left, I’d just move on.

Some Old Orders will put the excommunicated at a separate table at family gatherings and other group meals. I'm not sure which ones do this. Maybe somebody can educate us.

Do Holdeman's ever something of this nature?

[Neto]

wife: I was just meaning in general (not specific to leaving the OTT), and I think you’ve answered my question that they would still be invited to family gatherings.

Thanksgiving, Christmas, weddings, funerals, family reunions, auctions, and other such types of non-spiritual gatherings are generally where one catches up with expelled people and finds out what is going on.

I would have to add that I have never found more bitter people in my entire life than ex-Holdemans. They have a chip on their shoulder the size of a semi, generally speaking.

The exception are people who simply have a sin issue they can’t overcome and acknowledge it as sin, as opposed to being divided with the church and thinking they are “right”.

I don’t get it. If I disagreed with our church and left, I’d just move on.

Some Old Orders will put the excommunicated at a separate table at family gatherings and other group meals. I'm not sure which ones do this. Maybe somebody can educate us.

Do Holdeman's ever something of this nature?

Menno Simons understood the Scripture to indicate this, but didn't appear to be certain enough not to leave it to individual conviction. [Opponents interpreted 'eat with' to denote ONLY the Communion Fellowship meal, while he saw it as including daily fellowship around the family table.]

(Disclaimer: It must be remembered that excommunication is only to be used in extreme situations, such as total rejection of Christ, or gross immorality; certainly not over extra-Biblical injunctions. Menno was very much a Biblicist, and it is unfair to equate his understanding of this command with how other churches use it in ways which he would have said are contrary to the Scripture.)

[barnhart]

Some Old Orders will put the excommunicated at a separate table at family gatherings and other group meals. I'm not sure which ones do this. Maybe somebody can educate us.

Do Holdeman's ever something of this nature?

Yes. I've eaten around a table with the family and the one son was given a seat at small table to the side.

[barnhart]

Conversely, in separatist churches, you will get excommunicated no matter which church you go to. You will get excommunicated even if you had upright character.

What groups practice this?

[mike]

Some Old Orders will put the excommunicated at a separate table at family gatherings and other group meals. I'm not sure which ones do this. Maybe somebody can educate us.

Lancaster County Old Order Amish. My parents received this treatment when they were excommunicated, and they also wouldn't ride in a vehicle if my parents were driving, or work for them, or directly hand them an object. Although this has changed, and most of my old order Amish relatives are no longer strict about this. Sometimes they would have separate tables to be technically in line with the rules, but spread the same tablecloth over both. I remember my parents sitting at the 'bann table', while we children could sit wherever because we weren't excommunicated members. It wasn't a great feeling.

[Ernie]

Conversely, in separatist churches, you will get excommunicated no matter which church you go to [once you leave]. You will get excommunicated even if you had upright character.

What groups practice this?

From my understanding...
1. Most Lancaster Old Order Amish
2. Some Apostolics
3. Holdeman's
4. Reformed Mennonites
5. Some Old Order Mennonites
6. Not sure about the more conservative German Baptists
7. Not sure about the Old Colony Mennonites