What makes for a good courtship?

[mike]

We plan to talk with them soon to give some advice and give our vision for their relationship.

What would you say if you were in this position? What's your best advice?

I have three married children and a fourth in a serious relationship. Only one daughter is married. Not sure what you mean by "give our vision for their relationship." Maybe in your church circle that means well, but words like that scare me depending where it comes from.

My wife's mom had/has Supreme Manager of the Universe Syndrome (SMUS). She had spouses picked out for all her older children. When it didn't come to pass, she pulled out all the stops in trying to end whatever courtship her children entered into. It got ungly. And since my wife was the first child to get married, we got the worst of it.

Many years ago, I vowed to break those chains. Once a child turns 18, I promised not to interfere or sabotage their lives. I will give them my opinion and/or advice when asked. But I never want to destroy their ambitions or goals. Even when it comes to relationships. They're an adult now. Respect that.

(Sorry for the rant )

Sure, I get where you're coming from. When it came to agreeing to the relationship, we gave our assessment of the young man, but that is all. These decisions are entirely their own. They are the one who potentially will live with this person the rest of their life, and so they can say yes or no based on any feeling, emotion, or intuition they have, given that the fundamental things are in place (the other person is a believer in Jesus who shares similar values). We will support whatever decision our child will make in this case.

As for giving our vision, basically that is probably doing some of the things that have been suggested in this thread. I don't remember my parents giving me much if any advice on what a good courtship is. I don't think controlling the details of a relationship works out well at all. But I think that parents do have much to offer their children in this scenario. Child training doesn't suddenly stop once they start dating. But the nature of training does change gradually as a child gets older and by this time, parenting is primarily advisory.

[mike]

What would you say if you were in this position? What's your best advice?

Welcome him! Trust but verify and take it slow. My wife and I dated for 2 years but in retrospect, we should have dated for 3 years.

I like the idea of being welcoming. I had the opportunity to talk with the wannabe boyfriend before we knew what my daughter's thoughts would be, and I think it is important to let a young man who wants to court your daughter know that he is doing her an honor regardless of how things develop.

[the-real-steve]

Sure, I get where you're coming from. When it came to agreeing to the relationship, we gave our assessment of the young man, but that is all. These decisions are entirely their own. They are the one who potentially will live with this person the rest of their life, and so they can say yes or no based on any feeling, emotion, or intuition they have, given that the fundamental things are in place (the other person is a believer in Jesus who shares similar values). We will support whatever decision our child will make in this case.

As for giving our vision, basically that is probably doing some of the things that have been suggested in this thread. I don't remember my parents giving me much if any advice on what a good courtship is. I don't think controlling the details of a relationship works out well at all. But I think that parents do have much to offer their children in this scenario. Child training doesn't suddenly stop once they start dating. But the nature of training does change gradually as a child gets older and by this time, parenting is primarily advisory.

Totally understand where you're coming from and I respect that.

My SIL didn't ask permission to date my daughter but he did ask for my blessing in marriage. I like the way it was handled. Both my son's asked permission from her father for his blessing.

It recreates a respect both ways. Didn't read the entire thread yet. I'm getting there....

[Southerner]

Also, don't laugh off any of your daughter's questions cuz it's a leap of faith. I had a lot of questions for my parents but didn't feel comfortable asking them particularly about sex. My gf and I read "Intended for Pleasure" before getting hitched.

[Thomas_muntzer]

I’m reading this post and all the comments to gain insight for when I might have to give advice in the future—even though that’s still a long way off.

JhonH’s list is excellent; I don’t think there’s much left to add, and the point about cultivating a friendship with one’s future partner is very important.

[Neto]

If you do not already know the young man, try to get to know him in a way that will calm his nervousness of who he is talking with. Caution him (I'm putting this in much calmer terms than I feel about it) to never ask your daughter (or any other woman he might be interested it if this relationship does not go forward) to do anything to which she should say 'No'.

Regarding the 'no touching rule', like for instance no holding hands, I don't quite know how to say this without embarrassing myself (or someone else), but while I never held hands with a girl or woman except my wife, what can be done to relieve the pressure of thinking that a newly married couple have to do it all on the first night?

Re: 'liking someone', attraction, 'love', etc. OK. So they like each other. Why? What is it about the other that 'attracts' them? I think that a word of caution is more than fitting if the attraction (liking) is related in any way to the other being different than one or the other of their own parents, especially in respect to a daughter's relationship & interaction with her father, and a son's relationship & interaction with his mother - resolve these conflicts before marriage. (The other side of this is dealing with any expectation that a wife must be like his mother, or that a husband should be like her father. And what I said first is a caution against an attraction that is based on the potential spouse NOT being like their father or mother.) So as a father, make very sure there is peace between you and your daughter. [From what I've witnessed, if a daughter has conflicts with her father before she marries, that conflict will go away pretty well immediately after the wedding, because all of that conflict will be moved over to her husband. It won't happen immediately, but it will go that direction if the original conflict is not dealt with. This must be done before marriage, because there will no longer be a feeling of conflict with her father.]

More about attraction (in the extreme case, infatuation): It will generally not be enough for 'staying in love'. (I really think that love needs to be more of a decision, one based on a friendship, than on attraction. In the past arranged marriages often worked out well because since they often hardly knew one another at all, there was an obvious expectation or understanding that both spouses needed to make a conscious decision to love the other.)

[Bootstrap]

My daughter is starting up a relationship with a young man, so the topic is on my mind. She's the second of our children to do so, but it lands a little differently when it's a daughter. We plan to talk with them soon to give some advice and give our vision for their relationship.

What would you say if you were in this position? What's your best advice?

As someone who has been through divorce, I would include a conversation about respect and the importance of fostering friendship with their partner.

Too often I’ve encountered married couples that may have loved each other, but also clearly didn’t like each other, consistently tearing each other down with passive-aggressive “jokes” about their partner’s limitations. That’s poison in a relationship and over time, it erodes trust and affection.

Sometimes it takes work to like the people you love and I would encourage the couple to adopt practices that foster respect, friendship and genuine enjoyment of each other.

Absolutely. Here are three things I learned:

1. A marriage must be based on a solid friendship you can trust
2. Your spouse should be someone whose judgement you trust and respect, someone you can discern with in the Holy Spirit
3. You should be aware that courting can make you feel really deeply in love even when there is little basis, we are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex, and this clouds your judgement - if your closest friends and family have concerns, you should take them very seriously. And you should ask them to be honest with you and include them in your discernment.
4. In a good marriage, you can each give and receive caring in a way the other receives it, and you can each listen to each other well.

[Ernie]

Regarding the 'no touching rule', like for instance no holding hands, I don't quite know how to say this without embarrassing myself (or someone else), but while I never held hands with a girl or woman except my wife, what can be done to relieve the pressure of thinking that a newly married couple have to do it all on the first night?

We advise couples to not let whatever they've heard about how other couples do their first night or what they read in books to be their source of influence or reference.
Rather, they should do whatever they are ready for and let things naturally progress in the subsequent days and weeks and grow into it at whatever pace they as a couple are comfortable with.
I wish someone had told us this.

[JohnH]

Another fun date idea:

Volunteer to help the food committee

Go grocery shopping together to get food for the food committee

Arrange and put on a fundraiser. Lots of time spent together and with friends and brethren planning it and so forth