Then they came for the Amish ...

[mike]

I think the Amish are free to do whatever they want just like all other parents in this country who are free to choose or pursue whatever forms of education they want for their children.

I'm simply pointing out that criticizing the Amish for restricting educational opportunities for their children is not the same thing as saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system.

To paraphrase Ralph Waldo Emmerson, don't mistake criticism with persecution.

I'm not. And to that point, I would suggest to the author of the piece in the OP, don't conflate church discipline or community disapproval of one's actions with actual violence.

If the author of the piece is merely disagreeing with precisely how the Amish restrict educational opportunities for their children it would be helpful to be a little more precise. The language she uses is certainly not going to be effective in helping the actual problems the Amish have. That's my point.

[Ken]

Once more we see the usual defence of liberal msm "hate based articles" aka "hit pieces". Sad that Emerson is co-opted to support such hateful writings. I am sure he would not approve. Criticism is conducted amicably between civilised individuals. Persecution is the repetitive, aggressive targeting of an individual or groups. The OP article is only one of an entire catalog of attacks on the Amish, the Mennonites, the Hutterites, the Catholics, etc that takes place in MSM-land; a clear pattern of bias and persecution. The one commonality among these groups is that all of them have a belief system that excludes homosexual behaviors.

That wasn't a MSM article. It was an article by a Mennonite posted on a Mennonite web site and addressed to other Mennonites.

[Ken]

I think the Amish are free to do whatever they want just like all other parents in this country who are free to choose or pursue whatever forms of education they want for their children.

I'm simply pointing out that criticizing the Amish for restricting educational opportunities for their children is not the same thing as saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system.

To paraphrase Ralph Waldo Emmerson, don't mistake criticism with persecution.

I'm not. And to that point, I would suggest to the author of the piece in the OP, don't conflate church discipline or community disapproval of one's actions with actual violence.

If the author of the piece is merely disagreeing with precisely how the Amish restrict educational opportunities for their children it would be helpful to be a little more precise. The language she uses is certainly not going to be effective in helping the actual problems the Amish have. That's my point.

I read it as an article by a Mennonite, posted on a Mennonite web site, that is criticizing other Mennonites for idealizing the Amish and overlooking what she sees as a crisis of abuse in the Amish community.

Does she have a point? I don't really know. I tend to think the Amish individually are no more or less likely to engage in abuse than any other people. But I will allow that there seems to be some structures in the Amish community that make them less likely to address and root out abuse when it does occur.

[ohio jones]

I'm simply pointing out that criticizing the Amish for restricting educational opportunities for their children is not the same thing as saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system.

Nobody in this thread or in the article linked in the OP is "saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system."

[mike]

I read it as an article by a Mennonite, posted on a Mennonite web site, that is criticizing other Mennonites for idealizing the Amish and overlooking what she sees as a crisis of abuse in the Amish community.

Right, and she is doing it by unfairly characterizing the Amish in my opinion. Maybe that wins points with the kinds of Mennonites that read Anabaptist World, I don't know.

Does she have a point? I don't really know. I tend to think the Amish individually are no more or less likely to engage in abuse than any other people. But I will allow that there seems to be some structures in the Amish community that make them less likely to address and root out abuse when it does occur.

That is a fair assessment in my opinion, and one I would agree with.

[Szdfan]

This ad is in a current issue of Plain Communities Business Exchange, a magazine primarily dedicated to Plain communities. Old Orders in particular. I assume that Amish are among the groups that typically attend the Anabaptist Symposium on Sexual Abuse. For a long time there has been growing awareness of the problems and solutions of sexual abuse among Amish and other groups, and probably in society generally as well. It's a real problem and it needs to be dealt with. There is a strong need for the church to deal with it properly, practice good prevention, promptly involve law enforcement for all crimes, and utilize the best resources to help victims and offenders. And the fact is that many Amish are very ignorant in these areas. Many of them are working on it, and it's getting better, but there is still significant need for change in my opinion.

Is that the project Steve Stutzman is involved with?

[Ken]

I'm simply pointing out that criticizing the Amish for restricting educational opportunities for their children is not the same thing as saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system.

Nobody in this thread or in the article linked in the OP is "saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system."

Upstream Mike wrote: "The author is accusing the Amish (and the government by complicity) of denying their children education and medical care. These are strong critiques that Amish (and others) would vehemently disagree with. It sounds as though the author wants to shut down Amish schools and force Amish kids to go to public schools. "

Which is what I was responding to.

[mike]

This ad is in a current issue of Plain Communities Business Exchange, a magazine primarily dedicated to Plain communities. Old Orders in particular. I assume that Amish are among the groups that typically attend the Anabaptist Symposium on Sexual Abuse. For a long time there has been growing awareness of the problems and solutions of sexual abuse among Amish and other groups, and probably in society generally as well. It's a real problem and it needs to be dealt with. There is a strong need for the church to deal with it properly, practice good prevention, promptly involve law enforcement for all crimes, and utilize the best resources to help victims and offenders. And the fact is that many Amish are very ignorant in these areas. Many of them are working on it, and it's getting better, but there is still significant need for change in my opinion.

Is that the project Steve Stutzman is involved with?

I don't know much about the org, but here's their board of directors and advisory board from their website:

Board of Directors
Kenny Kuhns, Chairman
Randal Martin, Vice Chairman
Jeremy Sensenig, Secretary
Glenn Hoover
Jason Reed
Tim Weaver
Jamin Yoder
Sheldon Yoder

ADVISORY BOARD
Allen Hoover, Dale Schnupp, Elaine Yoder, Jay Laughman, Matt Troyer, Donna Kauffman, Mary Sadler

[ohio jones]

I'm simply pointing out that criticizing the Amish for restricting educational opportunities for their children is not the same thing as saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system.

Nobody in this thread or in the article linked in the OP is "saying that Amish schools should be shut down and Amish children forced into the public school system."

Upstream Mike wrote: "The author is accusing the Amish (and the government by complicity) of denying their children education and medical care. These are strong critiques that Amish (and others) would vehemently disagree with. It sounds as though the author wants to shut down Amish schools and force Amish kids to go to public schools. "

Which is what I was responding to.

Ah, that's where it came from. I missed that.

[Sliceitup]

Is it too much to ask that people can have differing political and religious views (large or small) but still support survivors? Why does one person’s support get thrown out just because they don’t see eye to eye?