Head covering question

[Swiss Bro]

There are umbrellas that protect you from a rainstorm and umbrellas that do not. And then there are umbrellas that partially protect you from a rainstorm. Since the Bible does not give explicit directives, I'd say go for one that errs on the side of being bigger than necessary rather than too small. It is subjective, I realize.

So does your wife wear a sombrero?
The lady that does “sing the KJV” has one covering all her hair without exception. Does your wife follow the logic to the extent?

My wife does not cover all of her head nor all of her hair. But no one needs to guess whether she is intending to veil her glory.
FWIW, the lady who "sings the KJV" no longer has that practice and now practices head-covering in a manner similar to my wife.

Next thing you know she‘ll be singing the NIV.

[Sudsy]

What are people's opinions on whether the traditional cap style covering in Anabaptist circles sufficiently covers the head? I'd like to do this without argument so just be respectful of others. Thanks.

My opinion is a head covering historically, in most traditions, covers all of the hair on one's head. Therefore, any covering that allows any hair to be seen is not a head covering. I think a better term would be 'hair covering'.

[Valerie]

What are people's opinions on whether the traditional cap style covering in Anabaptist circles sufficiently covers the head? I'd like to do this without argument so just be respectful of others. Thanks.

My opinion is a head covering historically, in most traditions, covers all of the hair on one's head. Therefore, any covering that allows any hair to be seen is not a head covering. I think a better term would be 'hair covering'.

Swartzentruber Amish fits this description.
Old Order Amish, you can usually see a little bit of their hair closest to forehead.
It is not just symbolic, but it is symbolic.
The purpose is to cover her "glory" which the hair is-
And why does it say "And because of the angels"?
If angels are looking in on a Church service, apparently the glory (hair) is to be hidden from view.

It is one of those topics that Church history and traditions are helpful to reveal what was most common.

Some early church fathers like Tertullian conveyed ceiling over the face as well.

OP is about Anabaptist women. A visit to Holmes county OH you can see the tiniest crocheted Barrett style "symbol" to a small pancake size doily to a small see through cup size cap to the scarves type to larger bucket looking caps of Amish to the completely covered even the back of neck. It does seem to confuse outsiders visiting the area (I have overheard)

[Josh]

OP is about Anabaptist women. A visit to Holmes county OH you can see the tiniest crocheted Barrett style "symbol" to a small pancake size doily to a small see through cup size cap to the scarves type to larger bucket looking caps of Amish to the completely covered even the back of neck. It does seem to confuse outsiders visiting the area (I have overheard)

Can you let the Protestant Pope know you need more consistency in this area?

[Valerie]

OP is about Anabaptist women. A visit to Holmes county OH you can see the tiniest crocheted Barrett style "symbol" to a small pancake size doily to a small see through cup size cap to the scarves type to larger bucket looking caps of Amish to the completely covered even the back of neck. It does seem to confuse outsiders visiting the area (I have overheard)

Can you let the Protestant Pope know you need more consistency in this area?

I asked a Nun a few years ago, who "really" knows what a veiling/covering is, why Catholic women no longer veiled like herself. When I was growing up, ALL Catholic women covered to enter their church. She replied that the Pope removed the requirement in 1978 as women were protesting against it- and left it up to them, apparently as he said something to the effect of choose your battles. There are Catholics who still will but really rare. I saw one recently. Her hair was down and her veiling completely covered her hair.

Really, the drawings revealed early church. Apostle Luke was the first to draw the Virgin Mary holding the Christ child, and her veiling completely covered her long hair.

[Heirbyadoption]

And what is the measure to tell if they cover or not?

My wife and I are with Ernie's earlier reply to the OP - sometimes yes and sometimes no. For my wife, its simply when her long hair (which Paul designates as a glory to her) is concealed.

She still wears our denomination's style of cap for worship and much of the time in public, but after more study over the past couple years, she did change her denomination style cap over to an opaque material (the majority of our ladies have inherited and still use the window screen mesh material for their caps).

[Neto]

Perhaps the first questions are:
What is to be covered, the hair or the head?
(My understanding is that it is the HEAD that is to be covered. The mention of the hair as a covering is a Creation Reference the original covering given to women. But sin entered in, and now an additional covering is necessary.)

When is the head (or hair, if you take that interpretation) to be covered?
(Again, my personal understanding: The context is prayer during the gathering of believers, so I think it is not REQUIRED to wear a covering in other contexts. HOWEVER, it is not wrong to do so. The problem with expecting this practice to apply to all other places and situations is that the covering used can then not as reasonably fulfill the expressed purpose - to cover the head. While my wife was completing her remaining graduate courses for Bible translation work, we lived in the Dallas, TX area, and attended a Plymouth Brethren congregation. The exact practice there was left to the choice of the sisters, but they all covered to some degree or another, and probably all more than anyone in the typical Plain Mennonite congregation. Some carried a scarf with which they covered their entire head during prayer, even their face. I tend to think that this was the intention of this Scripture. Something worn all of the time can be seen by outsiders as a "style", an adornment. Something done at the time of prayer is obviously done for another reason.)

[I do not expect anyone here to agree with me. I am a Bible translator in training, in experience, and at heart, so I look at it in a more literal way. I also grew up without this teaching being expressed, and have spent a good part of my life in settings where there was no acquaintance with this practice as a formal custom; that is, the larger cultures in which I lived had never seen it done.]

[Sudsy]

This reminds me of the water baptism mode. Just as when is a head covering a valid practise if it was originally meant to actually covering one's head and when is water baptism a valid practise if it was originally meant to water actually covering the body ?

If these things are mainly symbolic than the exact mode probably doesn't matter. But if they have further meaning such as a woman's hair is her glory and must be covered when praying and prophesying and water baptism is to represent a dying to sin, burying the old man and being raised a new person, then it would seem the mode has importance.

Some would suggest that if we are to take the scriptures in a more literal way on these, then the head covering would literally be covering the entire head and water baptism would require full immersion. Since Anabaptists often emphasize the need to take scriptures as literal as possible, it would seem, for some, but not in these areas.

Any thoughts on this ?

[Josh]

If the headcovering can be so symbolic that it doesn't need to be done at all, then baptism can be so symbolic that no water is needed. Make sense?

[ohio jones]

Just as when is a head covering a valid practise if it was originally meant to actually covering one's head and when is water baptism a valid practise if it was originally meant to water actually covering the body ?

The word "if" is covering a lot of territory here, especially in the second half.