What interpretations would lead to someone receiving "the ban" or excommunication from your church?

[JohnH]

I've always cringed when I've heard these analogies since, technically, they would actually be considered christological errors: the ice/water/vapor analogy is just modalism (sebelianism), sometimes also called patripassianism; likewise the "egg" analogy is partialism.

I prefer there to be a certain "mystery" about God and Jesus and particularly the Holy Spirit.

I cringe when I hear them as well, and all of them are indeed modalism. Trying to fit the Trinity into physical reality or develop a comprehensible model itself is the first step into error.

Well. The egg analogy is partialism. Partialism is unique in that nobody has ever intentionally started a heretical sect that taught it.

[PeterG]

Clearly, the time has come to post this classic.

[Soloist]

Clearly, the time has come to post this classic.

Wife: which one would the water/stream be? I actually don’t know if he explained the Holy Spirit in that one…

[readrevelations1to22]

Does belief that he is the "lord and savior of humanity, sent by God to save us, the promised messiah and son of God" not already elevate him far far above a "mere man"? In the scripture Jesus seems to have accepted the faith of those who stated things like this:

I would point out to you

Jhn 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

If this was not true, it would be blasphemy and Jesus would definitely correct it.
Therefore, Jesus is God without question.

Couldn't John 20:28 be related to the last conversation Jesus had with Thomas back in John 14:

"Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves. -John 14:5-11

With the Greek grammar this could have been phrased as "My Lord and God" if the intent was to apply both words to one being, but by saying "My Lord and My God" this allows application to two different ones. Some people interpret this to be Thomas recognizing what Jesus was explaining back in John 14... that is that Thomas now believed "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves"

[JohnH]

That is an exceedingly stretched explanation. Most of us go with the obvious, plain reading of scripture.

Have you made contact with or visited Christadelphians? I believe they hold to these views. I tend to disagree with them, though.

The Atlanta Bible College crowd has made their own Bible translation:
https://www.onegodtranslation.com/translation-info/

Jehovah’s Witnesses did a similar thing (made their own Bible translation to support their view of Jesus not being God) although many agree they are “cult like”.

[readrevelations1to22]

That is an exceedingly stretched explanation. Most of us go with the obvious, plain reading of scripture.

Have you made contact with or visited Christadelphians? I believe they hold to these views. I tend to disagree with them, though.

I think that for people that were non-christian and then start reading the Gospel on their own (without a church or missionary or priest mentoring them) what seems obvious can be very different from someone inside mainstream christian culture.

I'm looking into Christadelphians since you had mentioned them. It's noteworthy that they are also pacifistic and believe in adult baptism. Thanks for the suggestions.

[readrevelations1to22]

I do think that it would not hurt for OP to contact some of the communities that he’s interested in. They are not going to shun somebody that is not already a part of the church, and you can get to know the people for a while before ever becoming a member. Perhaps your view might change, and I don’t actually know their personal stance on it or how they would approach it, since I’ve never visited one of those communities. It’s my personal opinion that most people are not going to change on a view like that overnight, and that if someone is sincerely seeking the truth, God might show mercy on them while they are trying to figure things out. You could probably get some profit out of visiting one of those groups for a while, even if you never decide to join and you all aren’t in perfect agreement.

This is a kind suggestion. I feel as humans we need all remember we could be wrong (including me) and that we must continuosly desire the truth, praying to be guided towards what is right in case we are astray.

[readrevelations1to22]

I was reading a study titled "Old German Baptist Brethren: Plain but Different"
It's an interesting read. They mention that one noticable difference between the OGBB and other plain groups is a thing called "Orthopraxis"

3. Orthopraxis: An Emphasis on Conformity to Specific Practices Rather Than on Detailed
Doctrinal Convention
A noteworthy feature of Old German Baptist culture is the surprising degree of diversity that the
group tolerates with regard to differences of opinion—including toward beliefs that would be
considered nonnegotiable to many other Christian groups. Indeed, the Brethren place a much
greater emphasis on orthopraxis—uniformity of practice, particularly noticeable in relation to
their conduct of the ordinances—than they do on rigid doctrinal conformity.

One of the authors reflects:
One of the first occasions I spent in the OGBB ritual of after-dinner Sunday afternoon
fellowship and discussion was particularly memorable. Philosophy and politics as well as
theology and doctrine were the subjects of a detailed and wide-ranging conversation. It was
particularly noticeable at one stage, when doctrine was the focus of the discussion, that an
obviously well-regarded member held views that were quite strongly Calvinistic; another
was definitely Arminian in his approach to Christian doctrine. One or two members of the
group expressed views that appeared closer to Greek or Russian Orthodoxy. All drew on
both Scripture and a wide range of respected sources in support of their thinking. As the
discussion progressed, the degree of divergence was so marked that in other circles it
would have led to argument or even to a break in fellowship. In this OGBB context,
however, the discussion was held in a spirit of interest, calmness, and a tolerance for
diversity. Later, when the discussion had moved on to baptism, several varying views on
the exact doctrinal nature of the ordinance were expressed and there was little concern;
what was strongly emphasized, however, was conformity to the norm. One elder
summarized the view of the whole room: “Of course, whatever you believe, to be valid,
baptism must be administered out of doors, in moving water, and with trine forward
immersion—and in the names of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.” The emphasis was on
conformity of practice.

It seems like these groups might be ideal for someone who has unusual beliefs or interpretations of scripture but is willing to conform to a community in terms of the physical practices they emphasize.

I would assume this might be relevant regarding the 2 horse and buggy sub groups of the OGBB:
- Old Order German Baptist Brethren
- Old Brethren German Baptists

Do you guys think this could allow for a more positive situation for someone with the "unusual" beliefs I have previously discussed?

Link to study: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ent_Part_1

[temporal1]

Clearly, the time has come to post this classic.

^^love it.

There was good discussion in this old topic below.
Even a mention of Christadelphians. P.3

2016 / The Trinity
https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?t=173

I like some of the early church concepts of the Godhead.

They saw Jesus as proceeding from the Father, similar to the way sunbeams proceed from the sun, or the way a stream proceeds from a spring. For as long as there has been one, there has been the other.

This view lines up the most closely with what I read in the New Testament. (Shouldn't be surprising since many in the early church was not comfortable making up their own theories, and instead tried to stick closely to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.)

They are both Divine, have the same attributes, but the sunbeam is NOT the Father, but as Paul said a representation of the Father and the Holy Spirit is the warmth that proceeds from both, still Divine, of the same essence, but neither the former or the latter.
I like that Ernie, thanks.

[JohnH]

It seems like these groups might be ideal for someone who has unusual beliefs or interpretations of scripture but is willing to conform to a community in terms of the physical practices they emphasize.

I would assume this might be relevant regarding the 2 horse and buggy sub groups of the OGBB:
- Old Order German Baptist Brethren
- Old Brethren German Baptists

Do you guys think this could allow for a more positive situation for someone with the "unusual" beliefs I have previously discussed?

Link to study: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ent_Part_1

No.

You can’t be a Christian without believing Jesus is God. I would encourage you however to visit these groups and seek spiritual counsel from their leaders.