By Thy Words

[Abbott]

Ah, yes, another "criticise Holdemans" thread. Those sure have been useful in the past.

Everybody already has made up in their mind how bad it is that the Holdemans do things. You're all free to remain in your own respective churches and instead write about how you've found a good way to do things instead of always criticising somebody else's church.

Ah Josh, I almost admire the way you're able to take almost any comment and spin it into a perceived slight against whomever. You, my friend, are quite skillful. I took the question from Signtist to mean whether anyone from your specific congregation acknowledged . . . That's a fair question no matter what denomination you're from. I don't know much about the Holdemans. What do you have against them? Why not refrain from criticizing the Holdemans unless you can clearly explain what the issues are that you have with them?

You may be new to this forum. This specific question has been asked and answered multiple times. If someone wants to ask about or challenge Holdeman doctrine then go make a thread for that.

These are personal attacks. I don’t see why it’s useful to turn MennoNet into a forum for personal attacks. And I also don’t appreciate being asked to represent the entire Holdeman church. If you want to know their doctrine or church policies, call up a preacher or order some books from Gospel Publishers.

I don't see either why it's useful for you to turn forum discussions into personal attacks. I did not ask you to represent the entire Holdeman church. It's challenging to have a discussion with you when nearly everything that anyone else contributes to the discussion seems to be taken as a personal attack or an attack against Holdemans.

[Abbott]

The original topic of this thread, "By Thy Words", consists of someone who simply wants to find every avenue of attack against more-conservative groups. This is a hobby horse of less-conservative-people-who-are-still-conservative, and I think it's a bad one. People who are anti-Christian do the exact same thing against the Bible itself. They claim the Bible supports and promotes genocide, bigotry, rape, and many other bad things. Writing and thinking this way does not come from the Holy Spirit, but comes from a foreign spirit.

The subject of this thread is the Facebook page "By Thy Words" which pokes fun and denigrates the convictions of more conservative people. No matter what you think of Josh, I think this comment describes the Facebook page very well.

One thing "By Thy Words" got right is the title. Matthew 12:37 says "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Although I am not the judge, I fear many of the snarky, nasty comments made in the comments section of the page, are NOT justifying the people making them, but condemning them.

The originally stated goal of the page is

to expose the warped teachings that are remarkably prevalent within Conservative Mennonite churches by providing readers with quotes from their own literature.

While there's nothing wrong with that goal, and exposing wrong ideas is necessary, the page is also functioning as a gathering space for those who have been or perceive to have been wounded by such teachings and churches, not necessarily as a way forward toward healing. Anyone who raises questions on the group that doesn't fit within a certain framework of thought is verbally shredded with abandon. Is there a chance you are the Grace who has experienced that on the group? If so, I am sorry for what you've experienced there.

[Grace]

The originally stated goal of the page is

to expose the warped teachings that are remarkably prevalent within Conservative Mennonite churches by providing readers with quotes from their own literature.

While there's nothing wrong with that goal, and exposing wrong ideas is necessary, the page is also functioning as a gathering space for those who have been or perceive to have been wounded by such teachings and churches, not necessarily as a way forward toward healing. Anyone who raises questions on the group that doesn't fit within a certain framework of thought is verbally shredded with abandon. Is there a chance you are the Grace who has experienced that on the group? If so, I am sorry for what you've experienced there.

No I am not the same "Grace" that posts on the the Facebook page. And yes I have seen people shredded and decimated who didn't fit their framework of thinking. For those who have been hurt by and wounded by conservative churches, "By They Words", seems to only feed and fuel emotions and feelings of disdain, hatred and promote gossip. I don't see anything that would bring healing. I do not deny there are those who have been hurt and wounded, but I am not sure a public forum is the place to spill everything out. "By Thy Words" seems to be a place where those who were wounded, go to in order to keep the wounds festering.

I left a conservative setting years ago. The best thing was to "shake the dust off my feet" from the harsh guidelines and move on. But I Also know there are many sincere Christians who are still in those settings. People whom the Lord loves and cares deeply about.

[Josh]

Perhaps my bias comes from being part of similar groups and mockery of Christianity in general when I wasn’t a Christian. We would make fun of people who believe in a “magical sky daddy” and mock scripture. We would make fun of Catholics, making jokes that all priests are child molesters.

This is not of the Holy Spirit.

[steve-in-kville]

The subject of this thread is the Facebook page "By Thy Words" which pokes fun and denigrates the convictions of more conservative people. No matter what you think of Josh, I think this comment describes the Facebook page very well.

Keep in mind that the folks that come off as "poking fun" may be in the healing process and by commenting/replying on such FB pages is how they're going about it.

May not be right, but it ain't wrong, either.

[Josh]

The subject of this thread is the Facebook page "By Thy Words" which pokes fun and denigrates the convictions of more conservative people. No matter what you think of Josh, I think this comment describes the Facebook page very well.

Keep in mind that the folks that come off as "poking fun" may be in the healing process and by commenting/replying on such FB pages is how they're going about it.

May not be right, but it ain't wrong, either.

Would you extend that “healing process” to people who “poke fun” at you for believing in a “magical sky daddy”?

[steve-in-kville]

The subject of this thread is the Facebook page "By Thy Words" which pokes fun and denigrates the convictions of more conservative people. No matter what you think of Josh, I think this comment describes the Facebook page very well.

Keep in mind that the folks that come off as "poking fun" may be in the healing process and by commenting/replying on such FB pages is how they're going about it.

May not be right, but it ain't wrong, either.

Would you extend that “healing process” to people who “poke fun” at you for believing in a “magical sky daddy”?

We must not be reading the same Facebook pages... or I'm reading all the wrong comment sections.

[temporal1]

The subject of this thread is the Facebook page "By Thy Words" which pokes fun and denigrates the convictions of more conservative people. No matter what you think of Josh, I think this comment describes the Facebook page very well.

Keep in mind that the folks that come off as "poking fun" may be in the healing process and by commenting/replying on such FB pages is how they're going about it.

May not be right, but it ain't wrong, either.

What is legal in human law .. ..
is not necessarily charitable or Christian, or, as Josh referred to his former self above, not of the Holy Spirit.

The U.S. values free speech, but that does not mean everyone (including Jesus) agrees with everything said.

i’m trying to convey the distinctions to my grdaughter, i believe it will be a practice needed for the remainder of my life.
It may be legal (in human law) that doesn’t mean it’s moral or desirable.

[ABC 123]

In my past life when God was a vague concept and not Someone I thought of seriously, we looked at religious people with skepticism and thought they were just flaky weirdos.

Fast forward to the days when I knew God personally and (much later) Mennonite people. I appreciated (still do) so much about Mennonite people, but I remember reading some of that literature (that has been talked about lately) and cringing.

Some of it truly is cringeworthy (bythywords has a post up now where a mom is dissuading her little girl from being a nurse...like the aunt who does not love and obey God. The mom told her she could be a nurse just by being nice to people.). Had I gotten a hold of that literature sooner, it certainly would've fueled my flaky weirdo concept even more.

Knowing and respecting Mennonite people as I had come to, I struggled with the awkward and corny literature some pockets of Mennonites were putting out. Bluntly, it was embarrassing and I would never have shown that stuff to my friends outside the Mennonite church.

I had some real life experiences in church that were also concerning, but it was always passed off as if they people in question were just quirky and shouldn't be taken seriously. Ok. I turned a blind eye a few times. In back of my mind, I grappled with how many quirky people and events it took to actually be the norm instead of the exception.

I personally cannot publicly mock about this, but I admit my natural reaction is incredulous awe (that I keep to myself and don't respond on FB about). I cannot help how others process it.

There is so much solid and admirable about Mennonites. This literature is not an asset to the church, imho. Is this truly representative to what Mennonites believe and practice? I want to say no, but when it gets defended there is a question.

[silentreader]

The subject of this thread is the Facebook page "By Thy Words" which pokes fun and denigrates the convictions of more conservative people. No matter what you think of Josh, I think this comment describes the Facebook page very well.

Keep in mind that the folks that come off as "poking fun" may be in the healing process and by commenting/replying on such FB pages is how they're going about it.

May not be right, but it ain't wrong, either.

You might have an interesting concept of right and wrong, or does it vary according to subject?