Questions for Catholics and Orthodox

[MaxPC]

How do Orthodox and Catholics interpret and apply this NT instruction?

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

I would still be interested in hearing some Catholics and Orthodox answer this question.

For official RCC teaching, read my previous post. In the RCC it is considered a personal/private devotional practice as the many Catholic cultures across the globe can vary regarding clothing. What individual Catholics do for personal devotions has no bearing on RCC practices at large due to the many cultures. As long as the personal devotions do not contradict the Deposit of the Faith, it is allowed.

[Josh]

How do Orthodox and Catholics interpret and apply this NT instruction?

I would still be interested in hearing some Catholics and Orthodox answer this question.

For official RCC teaching, read my previous post. In the RCC it is considered a personal/private devotional practice as the many Catholic cultures across the globe can vary regarding clothing. What individual Catholics do for personal devotions has no bearing on RCC practices at large due to the many cultures. As long as the personal devotions do not contradict the Deposit of the Faith, it is allowed.

Could you comment on how the clergy interpret and practice this passage?

[MaxPC]

I would still be interested in hearing some Catholics and Orthodox answer this question.

For official RCC teaching, read my previous post. In the RCC it is considered a personal/private devotional practice as the many Catholic cultures across the globe can vary regarding clothing. What individual Catholics do for personal devotions has no bearing on RCC practices at large due to the many cultures. As long as the personal devotions do not contradict the Deposit of the Faith, it is allowed.

Could you comment on how the clergy interpret and practice this passage?

They consult their Ordinary (Bishop).

[Josh]

How do clergy specifically practice this Bible verse?

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

(If your answer is “they consult their bishop”, then could you tell us what direction a bishop would typically give?)

When I last attended masses, I observed a variety of clerical headgear being worn by the presiding priests, hence why I am curious about this topic.

[Ernie]

How do Orthodox and Catholics interpret and apply this NT instruction?

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

For official RCC teaching, read my previous post.

I didn't read anything in your previous post or at the link that addressed this verse.

If I asked an Independent Baptist or Wesleyan Holiness person this question, they might reply with something like, "Well that is why we take our hats off before we pray."

If I asked an Evangelical this question, he might say something like, "We don't think these instructions are applicable today as this was addressing cultural issues of that time." (I recently attended a Calvary Chapel style church where the pastor was leading the congregation in prayer while wearing a bill cap.)

If you asked a Plain Anabaptist this question, you would get a variety of answers, but nearly all would say that they remove their headgear before praying in formal settings (even though they might not do so if they breathe a quick prayer while on the tractor or at a job site.)

I am looking for this sort of answers from Orthodox and Catholics... I'm not looking for official policy on this matter, but simply wondering how people in these faith traditions process this teaching from the Apostle Paul, particularly as it applies to what the clergy wear during worship.

[MaxPC]

How do Orthodox and Catholics interpret and apply this NT instruction?

For official RCC teaching, read my previous post.

I didn't read anything in your previous post or at the link that addressed this verse.

If I asked an Independent Baptist or Wesleyan Holiness person this question, they might reply with something like, "Well that is why we take our hats off before we pray."

If I asked an Evangelical this question, he might say something like, "We don't think these instructions are applicable today as this was addressing cultural issues of that time." (I recently attended a Calvary Chapel style church where the pastor was leading the congregation in prayer while wearing a bill cap.)

If you asked a Plain Anabaptist this question, you would get a variety of answers, but nearly all would say that they remove their headgear before praying in formal settings (even though they might not do so if they breathe a quick prayer while on the tractor or at a job site.)

I am looking for this sort of answers from Orthodox and Catholics... I'm not looking for official policy on this matter, but simply wondering how people in these faith traditions process this teaching from the Apostle Paul, particularly as it applies to what the clergy wear during worship.

My wife notices the minutiae of clothing more than I do. She states that there is a section of our Catechism that specifically addresses wearing modest clothing at all times for both genders. She also notes that large numbers of women, particularly the younger generation, have returned to wearing head coverings at Mass. The men do not wear hats at Mass and have started dressing in long pants and button shirts instead of shorts and tees.

Regarding our clergy and religious, the vestment designs are similar to the Jewish designs for rabbis and priests in Temple. They have been modified through the centuries of course. While the priests of today do not wear anything on the head while praying the Mass, a Bishop or Cardinal may have a small skull cap (zuchetto) that resembles the Jewish yarmulke. This stems from the need to cover the shaved area on the head known as tonsure. Before modern HVAC units, the large churches are quite drafty and cold. The zuchetto protects the head of the celebrant of the Mass. For this reason you may see the occasional priest wear a zuchetto.

Of course the variety of climates around the world will affect these customs as well. As long as the clothing is modest and the clergy is faithfully serving the Lord and His teachings, there is some latitude regarding head wear vis a vis local climate. You will not see a priest wear a hat while praying the Mass. Bishops and Cardinals remove their mitres (hats) when they reach the altar and the Mass formally begins.

[JayP]

One should fully recognize Max’s point over the size and diversity of the RCC and realize that means virtually every rule is broken somewhere, and the words NEVER or ALWAYS may never work in reality.

Until Vatican II it was the common practice women should cover their heads in church and Max is correct that you do NOT see priests wearing things on their heads while executing say the mass itself. The removal of headgear is quite exacting and part of many rituals.

Today few Catholic women cover their heads at church in the US. In contrast at say Latin Masses probably 75% do.

The idea of your diocesan bishop being in charge is both true and false. Technically he is, and in many practical ways he is. But he is not everywhere nor is he the Church Police nor interested in being so. Variance is all over the place. For example, The Pope some time ago gave new restrictions on the Latin Mass. in some places they were applied strictly. In others Bishops who were supportive found all sorts of excuses and technicalities to avoid restricting it.

The RCC is big and made up of people. In my experiences in Eastern compared to the RCC, aside from doctrinal denominational beliefs and practices, I conclude people are people. Not saying you cannot work towards better, but changing the nameplate on the storefront does not magically do away with peoples natures

I have seen parish shopping by some Catholics (I do it. I attend a Latin Mass far from my physical Parish) and those on Nationwide Fellowship. I do not endorse or condemn.

Just trying to help folks realize they see the diversity in Menno World, why expect less in. Worldwide religion like the RCC.

[MaxPC]

If you asked a Plain Anabaptist this question, you would get a variety of answers, but nearly all would say that they remove their headgear before praying in formal settings (even though they might not do so if they breathe a quick prayer while on the tractor or at a job site.)

I am looking for this sort of answers from Orthodox and Catholics... I'm not looking for official policy on this matter, but simply wondering how people in these faith traditions process this teaching from the Apostle Paul, particularly as it applies to what the clergy wear during worship.

My wife notices the minutiae of clothing more than I do. She states that there is a section of our Catechism that specifically addresses wearing modest clothing at all times for both genders. She also notes that large numbers of women, particularly the younger generation, have returned to wearing head coverings at Mass. The men do not wear hats at Mass and have started dressing in long pants and button shirts instead of shorts and tees.

Regarding our clergy and religious, the vestment designs are similar to the Jewish designs for rabbis and priests in Temple. They have been modified through the centuries of course. While the priests of today do not wear anything on the head while praying the Mass, a Bishop or Cardinal may have a small skull cap (zuchetto) that resembles the Jewish yarmulke. This stems from the need to cover the shaved area on the head known as tonsure. Before modern HVAC units, the large churches are quite drafty and cold. The zuchetto protects the head of the celebrant of the Mass. For this reason you may see the occasional priest wear a zuchetto.

Of course the variety of climates around the world will affect these customs as well. As long as the clothing is modest and the clergy is faithfully serving the Lord and His teachings, there is some latitude regarding head wear vis a vis local climate. You will not see a priest wear a hat while praying the Mass. Bishops and Cardinals remove their mitres (hats) when they reach the altar and the Mass formally begins.

Additionally, Ernie, the sheer size of the Roman Catholic Church embraces 7 major liturgical rites (traditions), each reflecting the various cultures and ethnicities. They are all united by the Deposit of the Faith (the Bible and teachings of the Early Church Fathers) but the manner in which the liturgy is celebrated may vary.

The answer to your query needs some context too. The RCC parses differences between formal and private pious practices. Without this becoming a year long, and in-depth course in the history of the Catholic Faith, I shall try to condense some of this vast informational block:
Liturgical Rites (the liturgy) are expressions of formal celebration of the Sacraments. There are 7 Sacraments: Eucharist/Holy Communion(Mass); Marriage; Ordination; Baptism, Confirmation; Anointing of the Sick; and Reconciliation. Liturgies are conducted in the communal setting of the local parish with the exception of two: Reconciliation and Anointing of the Sick. Reconciliation is always conducted in privacy between priest and penitent; Anointing of the Sick may be done privately or in the presence of the community.

The charisms within the Catholic Church are either public or private vocations in which service to God takes on a particular expression of life and prayer. While still obedient to the Deposit of the Faith and the Sacraments, individual communities or families may have a special way of serving God through their lives.

=On a larger scale charisms can be seen in religious orders and monasteries. Some examples are the poverty of the Franciscans, the charitable missions of the Salesians, missionary work and the prayer lives of Benedictines and Carmelites who pray for the world. Members of religious orders may wear a habit, a particular style of clothing worn by the community to express membership identity. These may or may not include some form of head covering.

=On a smaller scale these charisms can be seen in pious practices of individuals and families which may include missionary work; serving in soup kitchens and helping the poor (St. Vincent de Paul charism); living separate from the popular culture and focused upon raising families in the Faith (Plain Catholics); private associations of the faithful in which particular prayer practices apart from the Sacraments are pursued; etc etc.

Among the Catholic laity, 1 Corinthians 11 and the head covering falls into this category of charism or private individual pious practice. Because of the ethnic complexity and variety of the 1.3 Billion members, this may take on a different expression in the form of prayer kapps, veilings/scarves, or simple head bands for women. For men it may or many not include simplified clothing. All of it will express adherence to the teaching of modesty as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Simply put: The laity have much more flexibility of choice in personal pious practices than the clergy. The clergy have more rules to follow in pious expressions as they are leaders within the wider community of believers.

I realise that the information is complex and weighted down with centuries of definitions and customs. It is my hope this clarified it a bit for you. If not, feel free to ask for more clarification.

[JayP]

I have never heard at a Novus Ordo Mass, in my life, a priest discuss this passage on head covering for men or women.

I have in Latin Mass and Othodox circles heard priests encourage women wearing a veil at Mass although not specifically referencing this passage, that I recall.

That said, traditional practice so firmly includes a woman wearing a pray that until recent times it was well known.
I understand, for I rarely travel to France and Italy, that RCC churches there often have signs encouraging tourists to dress modestly and or veil.

[MaxPC]

Ernie, any other queries? I shall be happy to give as accurate an answer as possible. I realise that the information is complex and weighted down with centuries of definitions and customs: so very many cultures and customs exist in RCC world that to provide you with accurate information requires context. It is my hope this clarified it a bit for you. If not, feel free to ask for more clarification.