I've found it interesting when people cite something that was literally a millenium ago.
I also find it interesting contrasted against what the Muslim world was doing, which was basically engaging in endless wars of conquest.
It didn't end there. Just recently, we promised to bomb Persia back into the stone age, eliminating their civilization for 100 years. In between, we have done plenty along those lines. The whole history of American involvement in the Middle East, the Iraq war ... all of this often pitched in religious terms, "good versus evil".
Or Gaza, where Palestinian lives do not have the same value as Israeli lives.
None of this has anything to do with the Crusades, but I suppose we could bring up Arafat’s endless terrorism campaigns.
Oh, we could certainly keep bringing up things "they" do to distract attention from what "we" do. But that doesn't help us see it from their perspective. Still, it's one of the most frequent responses.
Maybe these things are just as bad when "we" do them?
1 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2026 10:04 am
Just recently, we promised to bomb Persia back into the stone age...
We??
I want everyone to understand that this is not "what Christians do" or "how Christians treat Muslims", but from their perspective, that's what these things often look like.
And sometimes people are doing these things in our name. Some people even use religious war framing.
As citizens of the United States who participate in this society to some degree or another, how separate are we really from the American Empire regardless of our loyalties?
0 x
"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless."
It didn't end there. Just recently, we promised to bomb Persia back into the stone age, eliminating their civilization for 100 years. In between, we have done plenty along those lines. The whole history of American involvement in the Middle East, the Iraq war ... all of this often pitched in religious terms, "good versus evil".
Or Gaza, where Palestinian lives do not have the same value as Israeli lives.
None of this has anything to do with the Crusades, but I suppose we could bring up Arafat’s endless terrorism campaigns.
Oh, we could certainly keep bringing up things "they" do to distract attention from what "we" do. But that doesn't help us see it from their perspective. Still, it's one of the most frequent responses.
Maybe these things are just as bad when "we" do them?
I’d say it’s worse when a country declares to be morally superior.
Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2026 1:22 pm
As citizens of the United States who participate in this society to some degree or another, how separate are we really from the American Empire regardless of our loyalties?
At the very least I follow applicable laws. For example. I follow mandated reporter laws, which may require me to function as part of the extended network of law enforcement.
Considering this isn’t really voluntary, though, I’m not sure how reasonable to expect me to be independent of the “American Empire”.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2026 12:23 pmI want everyone to understand that this is not "what Christians do" or "how Christians treat Muslims", but from their perspective, that's what these things often look like.
And sometimes people are doing these things in our name. Some people even use religious war framing.
As citizens of the United States who participate in this society to some degree or another, how separate are we really from the American Empire regardless of our loyalties?
If we want people to know this is not what Christians believe or want, then Christians need to speak up.
0 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2026 12:23 pmI want everyone to understand that this is not "what Christians do" or "how Christians treat Muslims", but from their perspective, that's what these things often look like.
And sometimes people are doing these things in our name. Some people even use religious war framing.
As citizens of the United States who participate in this society to some degree or another, how separate are we really from the American Empire regardless of our loyalties?
If we want people to know this is not what Christians believe or want, then Christians need to speak up.
Are you aware that Anabaptist Christians are not exactly a vocal majority?
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2026 2:21 pmIf we want people to know this is not what Christians believe or want, then Christians need to speak up.
Are you aware that Anabaptist Christians are not exactly a vocal majority?
Yes.
But even on MennoNet, speaking up about these things can get pushback. And if we don't speak up, who will?
0 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2026 2:21 pmIf we want people to know this is not what Christians believe or want, then Christians need to speak up.
Are you aware that Anabaptist Christians are not exactly a vocal majority?
Yes.
But even on MennoNet, speaking up about these things can get pushback. And if we don't speak up, who will?
The primary pushback is from the older women, one a retiree, the other is of retirement age yet still works, who are either Republicans or else conservatives, aren’t Mennonites or Anabaptists, and hold a very standard, mainstream evangelical position when it comes to politics.
I don’t think the noise on MennoNet is really doing much useful witnessing at all. There are far better venues to do so.
