this bothers me to an extent
justme wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:06 pmthis bothers me to an extent
am i to understand that society does not have an obligation to provide basic human decency to people who choose not to follow society's rules?
...such as masking and who knows what else during Covid....
isn't that what got the world in trouble in the past?
i mean, just because i don't choose to follow the rapidly evolving rules (re: lgbt for example) doesn't mean that in a few years i should be ostracized and hunted down like the jews were back in the world war days.
A New Study Paints a Different Picture of Homelessness in California
Researchers found that homeless people in California were often living in poverty within the state, until they suddenly lost their home.
There are a lot of myths about people who are homeless in California: They’re from another state. They don’t want a job. They don’t want a home.
A sweeping study published this morning by the University of California, San Francisco, paints a different picture, one of people who were working and living in poverty in the state until they suddenly lost their homes. Not knowing where to turn, they ended up on the street, where they endure violence and poor health as they try for years to climb back to stability.
“Something goes wrong, and then everything else falls apart,” said the study’s lead researcher, Dr. Margot Kushel, director of the Benioff Homelessness and Housing Initiative at the university. “Everything in their life gets worse when they lose their housing: their health, their mental health, their substance use.”
She likened it to “a personal doom loop.”
California has struggled for years with severe income inequality, high living costs and a lack of affordable housing, and the state now has more than 171,000 people who are homeless — 30 percent of the national total. The new study found that they tend to be older than average and are disproportionately likely to be Black or Native American.
“This is a problem of this toxic combination of deep poverty and high housing costs,” Kushel said. “We’re a state, like every state in this country, that has a lot of very poor people, and we just don’t have the housing for them.”
Kushel and her team focused on eight counties around the state that reflect a diversity of experiences, rural and urban. For about a year starting in October 2021, they visited encampments and other areas to survey 3,200 adults, and then interviewed 365 of them for up to an hour, sometimes in 110-degree heat.
The researchers were guided throughout by people who used to be homeless, like Claudine Sipili, whose yearlong episode began after a divorce. She coached the researchers on how to temper their eager data collection with conversational graces that made people feel comfortable. “It mattered a lot to me that this was done in the most dignifying way possible,” Sipili, 44, said.
The undertaking began in 2019 when Dr. Mark Ghaly, California’s secretary for health and human services, asked Kushel to see how state policies were affecting people on the street. They wondered not only about who was using California’s services, but also about whom the state was overlooking.
Most interviewees had forestalled their descent into homelessness by doubling up with friends or relatives, only to have those arrangements fall apart. Those who had owned homes often lost them quickly when their income fell. Time and again, people told the researchers that they didn’t know they were going to lose their housing until a few days before it happened.
Researchers then asked what help they sought.
“People were like, ‘What? What help?’” Kushel said. “That was heartbreaking.”
Nearly everyone the researchers spoke to wanted a permanent home again, and nearly half were actively trying to get a job. Most said that an extra $300 a month would have helped them avoid homelessness, and could also help them end it.
Sipili said she hoped people who have never been homeless will see the humanity in the study data and will feel compelled to improve the broader system serving people who are unhoused.
“They assign the blame to the person instead of looking at the system side of it,” she said.
If someone chooses to shoot up illegal drugs, discharge illegal firearms, smoke where smoking is not allowed, and defecate in places that are not toilets, then no, I don’t think society is obligated to provide such people a house in which to do these things.
As Christians we should indeed expect to be persecuted - but we certainly shouldn’t think we are “persecuted” if we are busy breaking firearm laws, drug laws, and so on.isn't that what got the world in trouble in the past?
i mean, just because i don't choose to follow the rapidly evolving rules (re: lgbt for example) doesn't mean that in a few years i should be ostracized and hunted down like the jews were back in the world war days.
Ken, try to stay on topic - the only people sleeping on the street in SF are those who choose to refuse housing first options and don’t want to accept services like rehab or other addiction / mental health services. (Around 50% of the house less population of SF does accept these things.)
Again, I don't think you understand what "housing first" policies actually are.Josh wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:28 pmKen, try to stay on topic - the only people sleeping on the street in SF are those who choose to refuse housing first options and don’t want to accept services like rehab or other addiction / mental health services. (Around 50% of the house less population of SF does accept these things.)
The mayor currently is expressing exasperation and is trying to figure out how to basically force these people into accepting drug rehab and mental health treatment. Basically, it is not good for addicts and the mentally ill to just be freely living in the street.
Despite attempts to do things like create public bathrooms there is a real problem with poor sanitation because of simple refusal by a small section of the population not to go to the bathroom in public sidewalks. I think it is appropriate for society to regulate such things.
So oddly enough I find myself aligned with mainstream Democrats in CA, and very much not aligned with the radical extreme-progressive wing which seems to think it’s wrong to expect decent behaviour and respect at all.
Slightly off topic, but really appreciated the info about research methods. I do interview-based research as well and balancing my need for data with being personable toward all participants isn't always easy!Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:34 pm Responding to Josh who claims that the homeless are that way because they choose not to follow society's rules. Here is an article published yesterday (emphasis mine): https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/c ... =url-share
A New Study Paints a Different Picture of Homelessness in California
Researchers found that homeless people in California were often living in poverty within the state, until they suddenly lost their home.
There are a lot of myths about people who are homeless in California: They’re from another state. They don’t want a job. They don’t want a home.
A sweeping study published this morning by the University of California, San Francisco, paints a different picture, one of people who were working and living in poverty in the state until they suddenly lost their homes. Not knowing where to turn, they ended up on the street, where they endure violence and poor health as they try for years to climb back to stability.
“Something goes wrong, and then everything else falls apart,” said the study’s lead researcher, Dr. Margot Kushel, director of the Benioff Homelessness and Housing Initiative at the university. “Everything in their life gets worse when they lose their housing: their health, their mental health, their substance use.”
She likened it to “a personal doom loop.”
California has struggled for years with severe income inequality, high living costs and a lack of affordable housing, and the state now has more than 171,000 people who are homeless — 30 percent of the national total. The new study found that they tend to be older than average and are disproportionately likely to be Black or Native American.
“This is a problem of this toxic combination of deep poverty and high housing costs,” Kushel said. “We’re a state, like every state in this country, that has a lot of very poor people, and we just don’t have the housing for them.”
Kushel and her team focused on eight counties around the state that reflect a diversity of experiences, rural and urban. For about a year starting in October 2021, they visited encampments and other areas to survey 3,200 adults, and then interviewed 365 of them for up to an hour, sometimes in 110-degree heat.
The researchers were guided throughout by people who used to be homeless, like Claudine Sipili, whose yearlong episode began after a divorce. She coached the researchers on how to temper their eager data collection with conversational graces that made people feel comfortable. “It mattered a lot to me that this was done in the most dignifying way possible,” Sipili, 44, said.
The undertaking began in 2019 when Dr. Mark Ghaly, California’s secretary for health and human services, asked Kushel to see how state policies were affecting people on the street. They wondered not only about who was using California’s services, but also about whom the state was overlooking.
Most interviewees had forestalled their descent into homelessness by doubling up with friends or relatives, only to have those arrangements fall apart. Those who had owned homes often lost them quickly when their income fell. Time and again, people told the researchers that they didn’t know they were going to lose their housing until a few days before it happened.
Researchers then asked what help they sought.
“People were like, ‘What? What help?’” Kushel said. “That was heartbreaking.”
Nearly everyone the researchers spoke to wanted a permanent home again, and nearly half were actively trying to get a job. Most said that an extra $300 a month would have helped them avoid homelessness, and could also help them end it.
Sipili said she hoped people who have never been homeless will see the humanity in the study data and will feel compelled to improve the broader system serving people who are unhoused.
“They assign the blame to the person instead of looking at the system side of it,” she said.
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