Poll #1: Perspectives Related to the Covid Pandemic

[Sudsy]

Observation - just saying - sooooo much concern and arguing over how to go about saving temporal life, yet soooo little of the same for people's eternal existence. Seems we really have been bamboozled by Satan to focus our concerns on temporal issues that absorbs much of our time when millions die every day without Christ. I lose this perspective too but it keeps coming to mind as I read the various concerns we discuss.

We can live the 'simple life' yet be conformed to this world's way of thinking in what we set our thoughts on. Scripture tells us to guard our hearts and be in a process of transforming our minds to know God's will. It also says He is willing that none should perish but all should come to repentance. And since we all are going to die (perish) it can't mean physical death that God is most concerned about but our eternal existence.

I was going to stay away from this forum but since we can express our perspective on any thread, I think I might be a 'thorn in the flesh' for some but you can always use the 'foe' feature as I can also. For others I hope we can encourage one another to take more of an eternal perspective on topics.

What is the unsaved world seeing in us by the way we respond to this pandemic ? Do they see a 'peace that passes all understanding', 'unspeakable joy' regardless of the circumstances, a concern for people's souls, our lights manifested by good works and all the fruit of the Spirit active in us or are they seeing the same troubled hearts they are experiencing ?

[Dan Z]

Valerie,

People selling a chickweed salve claiming it heals all kinds of diseases are selling snake oil.

So is someone in Mexico selling “chromosome replacement therapy” to treat “autoimmune disease”. I went door to door selling pizzas to help raise money for that treatment for a family with multiple children receiving such treatment. Made me sick to think all our effort and the community’s generosity will just like some wealthy person’s pockets.

My entire point is that crowds like Pfizer have decided to join the snake oil crowd. Forget about efficacy, just go get the vaccine. Everyone else is doing it. It’s an identical mindset to seeking “alternative” treatments that have no evidence they actually work.

Josh, I assumed you understood science better than that. Oh well. There was plenty of evidence that the vaccines developed for Covid would work, and they do. Authentic measurable evidence. But believe whatever “truth” you choose to believe.

Actually the mRNA technology of the Phizer and Moderna vaccines has been in development for about 30 years now, culminating with the Covid vaccines undergoing formal double-blind Phase 3 efficacy testing on about 80,000 people, not to mention real-world results from the millions who have received the vaccine since.

On a side note, I was pleased to read that one of the motivating factors behind development of synthetic mRNA technology was to avoid the ethical dilemma of depending on fetal stem cells for vaccine development. Fetal stem cell lines from the 70's were still used in testing however - which is unfortunate - but the mRNA technology is a step in the right direction IMO.

[Wade]

Observation - just saying - sooooo much concern and arguing over how to go about saving temporal life, yet soooo little of the same for people's eternal existence. Seems we really have been bamboozled by Satan to focus our concerns on temporal issues that absorbs much of our time when millions die every day without Christ. I lose this perspective too but it keeps coming to mind as I read the various concerns we discuss.

We can live the 'simple life' yet be conformed to this world's way of thinking in what we set our thoughts on. Scripture tells us to guard our hearts and be in a process of transforming our minds to know God's will. It also says He is willing that none should perish but all should come to repentance. And since we all are going to die (perish) it can't mean physical death that God is most concerned about but our eternal existence.

I was going to stay away from this forum but since we can express our perspective on any thread, I think I might be a 'thorn in the flesh' for some but you can always use the 'foe' feature as I can also. For others I hope we can encourage one another to take more of an eternal perspective on topics.

What is the unsaved world seeing in us by the way we respond to this pandemic ? Do they see a 'peace that passes all understanding', 'unspeakable joy' regardless of the circumstances, a concern for people's souls, our lights manifested by good works and all the fruit of the Spirit active in us or are they seeing the same troubled hearts they are experiencing ?

Everyone I talk to in my area is getting the vaccine because of fear of loss of temporal life. My dad told me last night they got the AstraZeneca vaccine because they were told it was safer than not getting any vaccine and now they told my parents actually that was wrong... I was on the phone with him because my step grandmother was taking to the hospital last night with seizures. She got her shot 2 weeks ago...

[Josh]

It is your choice to trust or not trust medical science or medical pseudoscience (or politicians). You need not take the vaccine (which has, so far proven safe and effective) - I expect no anti-vaxer ever will. But I hope you have enough respect and love that you are willing to take all the other precautions available, including masking and social distancing, to avoid being part of the chain that might kill someone's grandparents even if you don't believe this disease is dangerous.

Flus also kill people, yet you never told me that I needed to mask and socially distance (neither of which have been conclusively proven to really help, and indeed in 2019, the medical establishment was busy proclaiming that masking doesn't prevent flu transmission, as they wanted medical workers to take flu vaccines instead of masking). The idea of being "part of the chain that might kill someone's grandparents" is patently absurd.

The Bible makes it very clear that diseases, death, and pestilences will persist on this earth. Mankind cannot eliminate them, and it is pure hubris to think one can avoid them. One could just as well attempt to avoid colds, flus, and cancer - mankind has yet to eliminate those things either.

The vaccine has not been proven "safe and effective". There is no prior precedent of a vaccine ever being proven "safe and effective" on such a short timespan. If you want to move the goalposts of "safe and effective", go right ahead - but moving the goalposts is what the pseudoscientists do too. It's sad to see so many people who were formerly attached to evidence-based science and medicine abandon it for what is essentially a political movement.

Meanwhile, yet another person I know first hand has weird complications from the vaccine. She has heart problems, which isn't normally in a women in her 20s/30s. People that age don't get irregular EKGs, and vaccinations do not have a history of these kind of problems just being "normal".

The good news is my friend in Canada looks like he might pull through. He's still on a ventilator but is improving. I have no earthly explanation for why taking a COVID vaccine means you end up in an ICU on a ventilator. (He didn't have COVID; he was sick with something else, and at his doctor visit he was advised to get the COVID vaccine. He was in critical condition an hour later.)

[Josh]

Everyone I talk to in my area is getting the vaccine because of fear of loss of temporal life. My dad told me last night they got the AstraZeneca vaccine because they were told it was safer than not getting any vaccine and now they told my parents actually that was wrong... I was on the phone with him because my step grandmother was taking to the hospital last night with seizures. She got her shot 2 weeks ago...

Bizarre complications from the vaccine are strikingly common, at least in my social circle.

Perhaps it is coincidence that a large amount of people I know who got the vaccine have complications? Perhaps it's coincidence that your relatives are having complications too?

I have gotten many vaccinations in my life, as has my family, and we never ever had any kind of complications at all.

[Ernie]

5-14-21

1. I tend to believe most of what is commonly believed by reputable universities like Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, world health organizations like WHO, Federal Health Agencies like CDC, and moderate reporters in both Republican and Democratic news organizations. (20)
2. I tend to be skeptical of news organizations on the left. (19)
3. I tend to be skeptical of news organizations on the right. (19)
4. I tend to be skeptical of all large entities and news organizations and am more likely to take the opinion of a doctor or researcher who is operating on his or her own.(8)
5. I was overly fearful at the beginning of the pandemic due to very little information, but now I think I have more reasonable fears, if any.(7)
6. I was not too concerned about the pandemic at the beginning but have gotten more concerned with time.(5)
7. I was not too concerned about gathering with other people until people I knew started getting sick.(2)
8. I was not too concerned about gathering with other people until someone I knew got really sick.(2)
9. I was not too concerned about gathering with other people until someone I knew died or nearly died.(1)
10. My opinions and conclusions have changed very little since the beginning. This is all playing out the way I expected.(16)

[Josh]

Actually the mRNA technology of the Phizer and Moderna vaccines has been in development for about 30 years now, culminating with the Covid vaccines undergoing formal double-blind Phase 3 efficacy testing on about 80,000 people, not to mention real-world results from the millions who have received the vaccine since.

That's simply not a statement anyone would have made in 2019, Dan. Attempts to use mRNA technology have consistently had problems in animals, and never came close to meeting thresholds for safety in human trials. We are now simply living in a giant Phase 4 trial being conducted on the entire world. An mRNA vaccine has yet to ever pass Phase 4 trials.

The Phase 4 step of mRNA based "vaccines" and other vaccines is usually where most vaccines go to die. If a vaccine has safety problems long-term, that spells serious trouble for the public's continued acceptance of vaccines. Discussing and explaining Phase 4 trials has been a very important part of how I have discussed vaccine safety with people who vaccine-sceptical or anti-vaxxers.

On a side note, I was pleased to read that one of the motivating factors behind development of synthetic mRNA technology was to avoid the ethical dilemma of depending on fetal stem cells for vaccine development. Fetal stem cell lines from the 70's were still used in testing however - which is unfortunate - but the mRNA technology is a step in the right direction IMO.

The only "step in the right direction" is to quit using fetal tissue at all for research. There is no good fruit from that comes from a poisoned tree. (Yes, I realise this knocks out a lot of other modern medicine; I am glad to forego it if it means I don't prolong my life by abusing a murdered baby's.)

[ohio jones]

2. I tend to be skeptical of news organizations on the left. (19)
3. I tend to be skeptical of news organizations on the right. (19)

Poll options 2 and 3 have been reworded at Ernie's request. You may change your vote if you'd like.

[mike]

But if one does believe in “evidence”, then you’ll have to deal with how covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now.

That's not true. It's still around. A 71-year old Mennonite man I knew years ago died on Wednesday of Covid. A local plain-ish church had 10-15 people sick with Covid just a couple weeks ago. A family in my church had it about the same time. A church we were supposed to visit last week canceled service because one of their families had it.

[Valerie]

But if one does believe in “evidence”, then you’ll have to deal with how covid is nonexistent in plain circles and has been for quite a while now.

That's not true. It's still around. A 71-year old Mennonite man I knew years ago died on Wednesday of Covid. A local plain-ish church had 10-15 people sick with Covid just a couple weeks ago. A family in my church had it about the same time. A church we were supposed to visit last week canceled service because one of their families had it.

I remember our former Amish friend while living several years in Maine, would report sickness going through their community from time to time. If people know doctors that successfully treat people without needing hospitalized, it is key to survival.

Just noting, herd immunity was reached first in Holmes county Ohio it stood out from all surrounding counties, it was not the threat there that it seemed to be everywhere else for some reason, I have my own ideas as to why, but it has been pretty remarkable for surrounding counties to witness that