Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

I found this interesting. I think the US signing in November was a mistake, a miscalculation. This is the first I’ve read about this “Charter on Strategic Partnership”.

The Russ­ian in­va­sion of Ukraine re­sulted from two im­mense strate­gic blun­ders, Robert Ser­vice says. The first came on Nov. 10, when the U.S. and Ukraine signed a Char­ter on Strate­gic Part­ner­ship, which as­serted Amer­i­ca’s sup­port for Kyiv’s right to pur­sue mem­ber­ship in the North At­lantic Treaty Or­ga­ni­za­tion. The pact made it like­lier than ever that Ukraine would even­tu­ally join NATO—an in­tol­er­a­ble prospect for Vladimir Putin. “It was the last straw,” Mr. Ser­vice says. Prepa­ra­tions im­me­di­ately be­gan for Rus­sia’s so-called spe­cial mil­i­tary op­er­a­tion in Ukraine.

The sec­ond strate­gic er­ror was Mr. Putin’s un­der­es­ti­ma­tion of his ri­vals. “He de­spises the West and what he sees as West­ern deca­dence,” Mr. Ser­vice says. “He had come to be­lieve that the West was a sham­bles, both po­lit­i­cally and cul­tur­ally.” He also thought that the lead­ers of the West were “of poor qual­ity, and in­ex­pe­ri­enced, in com­par­i­son with him­self. Af­ter all, he’s been in power 20 years.”

I don’t disagree with what is said about the West here. This is likely what pushes conservatives today toward Putin.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cause-ukra ... 1646413200

i was horrified even as a teen and young adult to think how much (vulgar) hollywood “represented” the U.S. overseas.
today, politicians export it as official foreign policy, corporations invest in throwing elections, etc.

there is valid reason to not be “all in” with the U.S.
add to that open reports of depravity, poverty, violence, homelessness. it’s not hard to imagine the U.S. is “over.”
is it?

i’m not sure conservatives feel “pushed toward” Putin. i wouldn’t know.
however, some accuse those who are not all in with depravity of being - the worst, hitler, it doesn’t matter. align, or you’re OUT.
Trudeau just shed some light on that situation.

Ukraine has more than 1 wolf at its door.

[Soloist]

What does the "free" world gain from creating a second North Korea with a much stronger base?

Nothing. But they are creating it themselves by behaving utterly outside civilized norms. And rapidly falling into totalitarianism. Inside Russia it is now a crime punishable by 15 years in prison to contract the Kremlin's propaganda line on this war, or to even call it a war.

yeah in the US you just get banned from twitter, reddit and facebook. We don't really understand freedom of speech.

According to the International Tribunal at Nuremburg which Russia participated in:

"War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Nice statement... Do you know how many active military conflicts are currently going on with many of them backed by Russian or US politician's?

How many of these conflicts resulted in invasions of sovereign nations, which ones were sanctioned for doing so?
How many countries did the USA destabilize and cause chaos, death, famine and massive amounts of refugees? Most of them Europe didn't want to take. Its really easy to take the high ground when all the media is beating the drums of war. When this war in Ukraine is over and the total lives lost is counted, its likely going to be a very tiny blip in the amount of lives lost to the wars every year. Of course I could be wrong, but really the only reason people care about this is because its a white controlled country and the enemy has nukes.

[temporal1]

Some of us are old enough to remember the Cold War and the distinct possibility of nuclear holocaust. I remember times, as a child, when that possibility loomed large. We'll, the recent actions of our friend Mr. Putin have highlighted the possibility once again. War is so unpredictable, and things can spiral out of control quickly. I'm very uneasy with potentially unhinged narcissistic strong-men autocrats - on either side of the ocean.

The only country to ever detonate a nuclear bomb in combat is the United States. Shouldn't Russia be worried about that?

We all should be worried about that. Putin worries me more right now though - he's exhibiting an aggressive and threatening posture, has his nukes on alert, and I seriously think there are fewer checks on his power than there are in most of the western nuclear countries. In either case, nuclear war is unwinnable.

He tried to speak frankly. He’s now getting attention.

[temporal1]

What does the "free" world gain from creating a second North Korea with a much stronger base?

good analogy.

[nett]

What does the "free" world gain from creating a second North Korea with a much stronger base?

Nothing. But they are creating it themselves by behaving utterly outside civilized norms. And rapidly falling into totalitarianism. Inside Russia it is now a crime punishable by 15 years in prison to contract the Kremlin's propaganda line on this war, or to even call it a war.

We have people on this forum who choose not to pay income taxes so that they are not supporting the Pentagon and the US war machine. How is that different from corporations and countries choosing not to do business with a regime that is waging a criminal war of aggression in Ukraine?

According to the International Tribunal at Nuremburg which Russia (or the USSR) participated in:

"War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

I think it is a good thing that much of the world is choosing not to be complicit in this war of aggression.

Ken, you are espousing the It’s Different, They’re White doctrine to a tee. Very sad.

[Josh]

One wonders why America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel’s invasions of Somalia, Yemen, and Syria basically have had zero attention the last two weeks compared to Russia’s operations in the Ukraine.

Should Visa and Mastercard cut off America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel too?

[Soloist]

One wonders why America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel’s invasions of Somalia, Yemen, and Syria basically have had zero attention the last two weeks compared to Russia’s operations in the Ukraine.

Should Visa and Mastercard cut off America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel too?

If they cut America off, the US government would seize their assets.

[temporal1]

One wonders why America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel’s invasions of Somalia, Yemen, and Syria basically have had zero attention the last two weeks compared to Russia’s operations in the Ukraine.

Should Visa and Mastercard cut off America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel too?

If they cut America off, the US government would seize their assets.

Witnessing Trudeau’s shocking response to unarmed truck drivers, and now the West’s (similar) response to Putin, is it fair to compare the power of “control via technology” with nuclear weapons?

[Dan Z]

The only country to ever detonate a nuclear bomb in combat is the United States. Shouldn't Russia be worried about that?

We all should be worried about that. Putin worries me more right now though - he's exhibiting an aggressive and threatening posture, has his nukes on alert, and I seriously think there are fewer checks on his power than there are in most of the western nuclear countries. In either case, nuclear war is unwinnable.

He tried to speak frankly. He’s now getting attention.

He invaded a neighboring country with a massive army and put his nuclear arsenal on high alert - I think that's what got him attention.

[Ken]

What does the "free" world gain from creating a second North Korea with a much stronger base?

Nothing. But they are creating it themselves by behaving utterly outside civilized norms. And rapidly falling into totalitarianism. Inside Russia it is now a crime punishable by 15 years in prison to contract the Kremlin's propaganda line on this war, or to even call it a war.

We have people on this forum who choose not to pay income taxes so that they are not supporting the Pentagon and the US war machine. How is that different from corporations and countries choosing not to do business with a regime that is waging a criminal war of aggression in Ukraine?

According to the International Tribunal at Nuremburg which Russia (or the USSR) participated in:

"War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

I think it is a good thing that much of the world is choosing not to be complicit in this war of aggression.

Ken, you are espousing the It’s Different, They’re White doctrine to a tee. Very sad.

Not at all. I think US leaders should have faced war crimes trials in the Hague for their conduct in Vietnam and Iraq as well.