In the Name of “Mission Work” book about CAM/Mast

[joshuabgood]

My book came today and I read it in totality. At this point I am without words...it is a must read in my view for those who are interested in foreign missions. My mind goes back to Harlans comment. More thoughts/quotes later...perhaps.

In the meantime this was a particularly stunning quote...

...a CAM board member called to ask how I was doing. I informed him I was considering legal assistance. He advised against that stating that a lawyer doesn't bring any real value to the table. Page 122

Do you think a Christian who is a victim should retain a lawyer? And then do what, file a lawsuit?

Why do you think that quote was remarkable to me?

[steve-in-kville]

My book came today and I read it in totality. At this point I am without words...it is a must read in my view for those who are interested in foreign missions. My mind goes back to Harlans comment. More thoughts/quotes later...perhaps.

In the meantime this was a particularly stunning quote...

...a CAM board member called to ask how I was doing. I informed him I was considering legal assistance. He advised against that stating that a lawyer doesn't bring any real value to the table. Page 122

Do you think a Christian who is a victim should retain a lawyer? And then do what, file a lawsuit?

Simply my immediate thought, that of which I retain the right follow up on:

For financial gain- No.
For financial restitution- Maybe.
To make harassment/retaliation stop- Absolutely.

[Josh]

When lawyers get involved, it generally favours those who are willing to lie the most and have the most money to spend.

I can understand if someone feels very frustrated. It also wasn’t the right way for the board member to respond, but I kind of gave up on the old CAM board a while ago. (The current leadership seems to have a lot of integrity and I would place confidence in them.)

[just_thinking]

CAM has a lot of money. People want their money. One of those people is Randal Martin, who wants to build his own organisation. He then tells other people they need to spend lots of money, including on his own organisation. His own track record is very bad - ASAA has been compromised since its founding. Yet Randal still goes around demanding independent investigations, and also soliciting that people pay his organisation for training, etc.

How about this: let’s have an independent investigation into ASAA and Randal Martin. Particularly what went on during its founding.

Who is Randal to whom you refer? If he is the same one on this thread, he seems like a pretty reasonable guy to me. His responses seem fair and well-thought through. Interesting, I brought up the legitimate issues he raised about CAM and the book, which I believe is what this thread is supposed to be about, and he gets blasted personally. Where are the "nice" police on this forum when you need them?

When lawyers get involved, it generally favours those who are willing to lie the most and have the most money to spend.

If that is true, what does it indicate about CAM who has worked so closely with lawyers? Or is that statement only true for individuals who retain lawyers? Hmmm.

I can understand if someone feels very frustrated. It also wasn’t the right way for the board member to respond, but I kind of gave up on the old CAM board a while ago. (The current leadership seems to have a lot of integrity and I would place confidence in them.)

Has the system really changed? A dysfunctional system will never allow those into key positions that will threaten the system. Is the board actually making the decisions? Or is the board being governed by the executive team, whose key players have not changed? The evidence is very questionable (at best) at this point. The scriptures indicate that he that covers his sins shall not prosper (Prov 28:13). James 5 commands us to confess our faults. There are many more verses along these lines, and since organizations are comprised of people, wouldn't those scriptures apply to CAM? The faults and failures of a public organization must be confessed publicly in order to begin rebuilding trust. Scripturally, have they even gotten off of first base? As long as they are covering their issues, how do we, or even they, know that efforts to date to "help victims" were more oriented to image salvaging or true victim care? This book (which I have read) would surely indicate a clear answer based on one persons narrative.

[steve-in-kville]

Where are the "nice" police on this forum when you need them?

They're in plain clothes watching all the new people.

[Josh]

CAM has a lot of money. People want their money. One of those people is Randal Martin, who wants to build his own organisation. He then tells other people they need to spend lots of money, including on his own organisation. His own track record is very bad - ASAA has been compromised since its founding. Yet Randal still goes around demanding independent investigations, and also soliciting that people pay his organisation for training, etc.

How about this: let’s have an independent investigation into ASAA and Randal Martin. Particularly what went on during its founding.

Who is Randal to whom you refer? If he is the same one on this thread, he seems like a pretty reasonable guy to me. His responses seem fair and well-thought through. Interesting, I brought up the legitimate issues he raised about CAM and the book, which I believe is what this thread is supposed to be about, and he gets blasted personally. Where are the "nice" police on this forum when you need them?

The Randal Martin who seems to run ASAA now, and presumably posts here as “randalm”.

When lawyers get involved, it generally favours those who are willing to lie the most and have the most money to spend.

If that is true, what does it indicate about CAM who has worked so closely with lawyers? Or is that statement only true for individuals who retain lawyers? Hmmm.

I spoke very harshly about CAM’s use of lawyers early on in this scandal. You can go and check my posts from that era (2019) of you wish.

I can understand if someone feels very frustrated. It also wasn’t the right way for the board member to respond, but I kind of gave up on the old CAM board a while ago. (The current leadership seems to have a lot of integrity and I would place confidence in them.)

Has the system really changed? A dysfunctional system will never allow those into key positions that will threaten the system. Is the board actually making the decisions? Or is the board being governed by the executive team, whose key players have not changed?

Yes executive team got replaced. CAM did themselves zero favours by not being very forthcoming about these changes. The board was also reconstituted and is now headed by Tom (“Tommy”) Wagler. If you have a problem, give him a call.

The evidence is very questionable (at best) at this point. The scriptures indicate that he that covers his sins shall not prosper (Prov 28:13). James 5 commands us to confess our faults. There are many more verses along these lines, and since organizations are comprised of people, wouldn't those scriptures apply to CAM? The faults and failures of a public organization must be confessed publicly in order to begin rebuilding trust. Scripturally, have they even gotten off of first base? As long as they are covering their issues, how do we, or even they, know that efforts to date to "help victims" were more oriented to image salvaging or true victim care? This book (which I have read) would surely indicate a clear answer based on one persons narrative.

CAM has not been covering up their issues. What you listed above is a false accusation.

Keep in mind that I am someone who won’t donate one penny to CAM, discourages anyone in my church from having anything go do with them, and asked my church to pull books from CAM’s affiliates from our library (specifically books by Harold Herr; his books belong in a box for kindling or composting and have no place in a church library). I think the independent mission agency model is broken. I think CAM should eventually disband.

So that’s who you’re talking to.

[ABC 123]

Josh and RZ, I am not sure how your ideas would've changed the outcome if Faith/Shining Light would've been in charge of sending or not sending JM or Charity/Grandpa Herr. They knew and allowed them to be sent.

In plain Anabaptist settings, I doubt anybody is more than 3 phone calls away from leadership to leadership of somebody who knows somebody.

Learning from our mistakes, another JM situation should not happen. Key phrase: learn from our mistakes. First that branch of Anabaptists has to recognize they had a faulty view on serial pedophilia. If they do not recognize that, it would be wise to never accept a volunteer from their churches again.

Yes, I am quoting myself.

A joint organization among multiple Anabaptist churches has the potential to work really well. I dont think of all the different conferences as being so removed from each other. A board made up of a sampling of churches can actually be a strength. Multitude of counselors and all that.

The problem presented was a failure to keep known pedophiles from the mission field. Whether that is just poor judgment or negligence, that needs to be addressed.

If each conference did their own missions, JM type situations won't change unless we collectively deal with what we think about sexual sins and long term ramifications of those who historically have preyed on kids.

[mike]

I just don't think our discussion here matters all that much. There could be some CAM staff reading, but the only thing that really matters is what the CAM constituency demands by either withholding donations or voluntary labor support. And the majority of those people aren't tuned into the online community of less conservative or disaffected former Anabaptists. A huge amount of CAM supporters probably haven't been all that aware of the details of the whole JM scandal. As Z_DC posted the other day, the median US Mennonite may be Horning, or more conservative than that if you count in the Amish, who also support CAM to some degree. I'm pretty sure that while some Horning Mennonites, mostly young people, use the Internet, most of them don't.

A friend of mine told me that the median U.S. Mennonite is Horning. In other words, if every Mennonite in the US were to stand in a line based on a spectrum of church membership from liberal to conservative, the median Mennonite would be Horning. This is not counting our Amish brothers and sisters which could move the median even more conservative. I don't really have a question, but just wanted to share this interesting information.

I don't think our discussions move the needle much here in terms of support for change at CAM. I am not necessarily saying they should. It's just an observation. I still support CAM like I always have.

[mike]

If I had not been on Mennonet or Facebook, I wouldn't have known much at all about the Jeriah Mast/CAM scandal.

[steve-in-kville]

If I had not been on Mennonet or Facebook, I wouldn't have known much at all about the Jeriah Mast/CAM scandal.

The Lancaster paper carried the story due to CAM having a local presence.