Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Dan Z]

If an outsized bully throws a punch and starts a fight, It is reasonable to recognize the role of the bully as the aggressor while at the same time encouraging both parties to make peace. Bullies like to claim that they were forced to throw a punch (there are always reasons, sometimes even legitimate ones) - failing to recognize that starting a fight is a choice in its own right.

[HondurasKeiser]

If an outsized bully throws a punch and starts a fight, It is reasonable to recognize the role of the bully as the aggressor while at the same time encouraging both parties to make peace. Bullies like to claim that they were forced to throw a punch (there are always reasons, sometimes even legitimate ones) - failing to recognize that starting a fight is a choice in its own right.

But don't you see Dan, the bully punched a Nazi fascist so that must make it ok.

[mike]

Negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegations are happening now. It would be a good time to pray. Our Father in heaven, please bring peace.

[temporal1]

Do so many threads need to turn to partisan politics and abortion?

Here’s a reason for caution: U.S. House Dems. They do nothing without leveraging-hard for their own interests.
Where does NATO, the UN, EU, stand on for-profit corporate abortion, homosexuality, and other U.S. Democratic non-negotiables?

This seems to show strong prejudice and lack of understanding. A family member has connections with these folks and I used to know a few decades ago when I lived in the Maryland suburbs. We have strongly differing opinions about the personhood of the fetus, but that does not make them people to not trust in other matters. Many are sincere, wanting to do what is right for our country. They just feel compassion for the mothers highly outweighs compassion for the unborn child. I disagree, but don't condemn their motives in trying to do what is right.

But the subject of this thread is Ukraine. On caring about Ukrainians, we don't have to divide libs and cons. Both are supporting Temporary Protected Status for Ukrainians. This is support I hope we can agree on.

It’s not “the good people on both sides” sitting in Congress, controlling decisions. It’s amoral CAREER politicians who cannot be trusted, who are under terrific pressures from lobbies, special interests, blocs - including the MIC.

Ukraine needs to be keenly aware of “READING THE FINE PRINT” with those who have proven over decades - they have FINE PRINT.

Ukraine is in dire need of prayers. Protection from all sides.

This topic is in Current Events. A prayer thread would be welcome. i’m certain Ukraine is receiving abundant prayers.

[temporal1]

Negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegations are happening now. It would be a good time to pray. Our Father in heaven, please bring peace.

i’m prayerful and hopeful.
both sides have intense motivation to negotiate. let resolution come quickly, let billions in arms promised go unused.

[Josh]

Yes, if they'd had a habit of doing that for the last 8 years, I would support that.

Supporting people in Donetsk and Luhansk is obviously not the same thing. Russia has been quite patient about this and has put up with unreasonable behaviour from the Ukraine now for 8 years. The obvious question is - what exactly does the West expect? Do they really think they should expect Russia (and China, India, Brazil, and other nations choosing to be non-aligned) to simply let America and NATO do whatever they want right on their borders without repurcussions?

We opened this door when we decided to invade Serbia and create Kosovo. There are no "rules" anymore. It's just about whatever you can get away with.

"We"? Wrong kingdom, dude. Try again.

I'm not convinced "we" ought to support either side in conflicts like this. If we do, maybe it should be on the basis of this question: Under which worldly kingdom (if either) can our brothers and sisters who live there lead quiet and peaceable lives?

I'd rather not make them endure 8 years of war before "we" decide they deserve to remain independent.

We should be wary of supporting any side in armed conflicts. But not all sides are equal either, not by a long stretch.

The "side" Josh is apparently favoring above in his mention of Kosovo is the Serbia of Slobodan Milošević, former communist apparatchik during the Yugoslav days and dictator of Serbia during the time period of the Kosovo conflict. He famously became the first sitting head of state to be charged with war crimes. He was charged with crimes against humanity for aiding in genocide and various other war crimes in Bosnia and Croatia as well as Kosovo.

No. I am simply pointing out that America supporting Kosovo independence is the same as Russia supporting Donetsk and Luhansk independence.

[Josh]

Do so many threads need to turn to partisan politics and abortion?

Here’s a reason for caution: U.S. House Dems. They do nothing without leveraging-hard for their own interests.
Where does NATO, the UN, EU, stand on for-profit corporate abortion, homosexuality, and other U.S. Democratic non-negotiables?

This seems to show strong prejudice and lack of understanding. A family member has connections with these folks and I used to know a few decades ago when I lived in the Maryland suburbs. We have strongly differing opinions about the personhood of the fetus, but that does not make them people to not trust in other matters. Many are sincere, wanting to do what is right for our country. They just feel compassion for the mothers highly outweighs compassion for the unborn child. I disagree, but don't condemn their motives in trying to do what is right.

But the subject of this thread is Ukraine. On caring about Ukrainians, we don't have to divide libs and cons. Both are supporting Temporary Protected Status for Ukrainians. This is support I hope we can agree on.

People who want to murder unborn babies are not “sincere”. Sincerely deceived, maybe.

Likewise, I’m dismayed at how many “liberals” are openly calling for nuclear strikes.

[Josh]

If an outsized bully throws a punch and starts a fight, It is reasonable to recognize the role of the bully as the aggressor while at the same time encouraging both parties to make peace. Bullies like to claim that they were forced to throw a punch (there are always reasons, sometimes even legitimate ones) - failing to recognize that starting a fight is a choice in its own right.

Would you extend your analogy to bullies attacking ethnic Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk, which is how all this started?

[temporal1]

“European plan to donate fighter jets to Ukraine collapses”
“The dissolution of the deal comes as European countries lined up Monday to announce new weapons packages for Ukraine, from anti-armor and anti-air rockets to artillery and medical supplies.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/2 ... s-00012560

[Soloist]

If an outsized bully throws a punch and starts a fight, It is reasonable to recognize the role of the bully as the aggressor while at the same time encouraging both parties to make peace. Bullies like to claim that they were forced to throw a punch (there are always reasons, sometimes even legitimate ones) - failing to recognize that starting a fight is a choice in its own right.

There are two ways to teach to deal with a bully, the Christian response, and the world's response. Which one should we call for?